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Fence

Discussion in 'General Land Surveying' started by zebra, May 21, 2013.

  1. zebra

    zebra 2-Year Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    32
    I installed a privacy fence two years ago. I discussed the property line with my neighbor. Using their garage as the property line. They agreed to the fence being installed. I put the fence a foot from the garage. Our garages are (approximately 8 feet apart) the neighbor agreed I could put a flower bed between the garages, since I always maintained this area. In preparing the area I removed a lot of creek rock and dug a foot deep. Now two years later they had a surveyor find the property pins. One of the pins is between the garages. (I never found any surveyor pins during the preparation for the flower bed.) The pin at the front of my property is not in alignment with the pin between the garages. I installed the fence in alignment with the front pin. I can not see the pins only the surveyors caps. The surveyor plates from 1909 show the property is 55 ft wide front and back. The caps from the surveyor show it at an angle going inward on my property. Making my fence approximately 5 inches on their property. They have now decided to install their own privacy fence one foot from my fence going by the front pin. (Their garage would be the property line.) I discussed having two fences back to back would be a safety issue for kids and animals. If I remove my fence can I still use the land (one foot) that was going to be between the fences? Or should I still try and find the 1909 surveyor pins? Problem solved if they are in a different location than the caps the surveyor has installed.
    No codes or regulations for fences in my area.
     
  2. Dave Ingram

    Dave Ingram 5-Year Member

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    Jul 2, 2010
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    2,187
    Location:
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    The very first thing to do is talk to the surveyor that did the work and politely ask him to explain what he did and why he did it. Those here from all over the country don't have a clue.
     
  3. jud

    jud 4-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,950
    Location:
    Lexington, OR 97839
    So far, doing the things you thought you could do with a verbal agreement has not worked out well. Your neighbor has had a Survey completed with monuments set and he is entitled to use all of his land as he sees fit within the guidelines of local law. You can accept that survey as being correct in marking your common line or you can disagree with it, if you choose to disagree with it's location, the burden is on you to prove it wrong. The only way you can do that is by employing a Licensed Surveyor to survey your property. Hopefully the two surveys would be in agreement as to the location of your common line. If they are not, your actions may have opened a can of worms best left unopened, your choice. You can not get absolute answers to your questions from anyone on this board, all you can get are some suggestions from professionals that are speculative in nature only because all of the facts are not known.
    jud
     
  4. roveryan

    roveryan 2-Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2013
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    Enschede Netherlands
    your verbal agreement to place the 1st fence position is based on your estimate without any guidance from a surveyor or even just plain old surveying principle, The 2nd position of the fence made by your neighbor is based on surveying principle. Seems to me like a no brainer.:-/

    And based on your measurements, you would be losing 5 inches? Is that a lot? You could not even plant a tree in a 5 inch corridor of land right?
     
  5. The Pseudo Ranger

    The Pseudo Ranger 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    2,376
    Are you sure the pin between the garages is an angle point? It could be that the surveyor set a point on line, so call and ask what that marker is. It could be on a straight line ... I can tell you from experience that when you have fences and buildings near the property line, it's nearly impossible to "eyeball" a point on line. I have a lot of people tell me "the line isn't straight" when the measurements say otherwise, looks can be deceiving.
     
  6. dmyhill

    dmyhill 4-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    Bellevue, Washington
    You would be best served contacting the surveyor. If you need much more than a 10 minute conversation, offering to pay some remuneration would be in order.

    Ask for a copy of the survey map(some call it a plat), this should involve a fee. If you are in a recording state, you may be able to find this online, or at the courthouse.

    You may also be able to pay the surveyor to prepare and provide you with a report that explains what they did, and why.

    That being said, if consulting with the surveyor doesn't resolve the issue in your mind, I would suggest a good land attorney before hiring another surveyor.

    We have no reason to dispute the findings of the surveyor, but you don't like what the neighbors are doing with the information. That is what a lawyer is for.
     
  7. dmyhill

    dmyhill 4-Year Member

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    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    Bellevue, Washington
    Two comments about on my comment:

    Knowing the State of the Union in which the parcel is situated allows us to have better and more informed opinions.

    And, if it sounds like it will be expensive to disagree with your neighbor, that would be correct.
     
  8. three.rivers

    three.rivers 2-Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2013
    Messages:
    254
    You and your neighbor are treating the area between garages like a land
    of undivided interest or common property. Later, making agreements
    when neither of you all knew where the property line is, now looks like
    a bad idea.
     
  9. A Harris

    A Harris 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,423
    Location:
    NE Texas
    Licensed in:
    TX
    Never be afraid to say to your neighbor "show me you survey" and get it copied.

    Especially when they are disputing what you feel has been correct for so many years.

    If you don't understand what it says, then ask someone to explain it to you.

    0.02
     
  10. spledeus

    spledeus 3-Year Member

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    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    2,143
    Location:
    Chatham, MA
    just enter an agreement with the neighbor that once the first privacy fence fails, it will be replaced by both parties on the line. 5"? bah! more trouble than it's worth. their surveyor should have advised them to see if the neighbors could seek some agreement and not turn them against each other.

    good luck and i hope you will still be neighborly after this unnecessary fiasco.
     
  11. Dave Karoly

    Dave Karoly 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
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    6,509
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Licensed in:
    CA
    So your neighbor is going to build the fence to their garage wall despite the rear corner is about 1.5' from their garage wall?

    I really don't see what the issue is?

    I wouldn't consult with attorneys, just have beer and burgers with the neighbor and discuss the problem and find a mutually agreeable solution. They seem to be ignoring their own survey anyway.
     
  12. Steve Gilbert

    Steve Gilbert 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Birmingham, Alabama
    "I installed the fence in alignment with the front pin. I can not see the pins only the surveyors caps."

    If you only found one pin, what did you line it up with? You must have two pins to mark an accurate line. Also, the surveyor's caps are set on iron pins that they set, meaning they didn't find one there.

    All this could have been avoided if you had hired a surveyor to mark the line before you built the fence. Even then, in this case it's not worth getting upset about it.
     
  13. zebra

    zebra 2-Year Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
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    32
    Neighbor said they had it surveyed. I went to the tax map office they told me there was no survey done. He just found the corner pins. Should I be able to see these pins the surveyor found?
     
  14. zebra

    zebra 2-Year Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
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    I live in Ohio.
     
  15. zebra

    zebra 2-Year Member

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    I was told by the previous owner where the property line was. Had no reason not to believe them. My mistake.
     
  16. zebra

    zebra 2-Year Member

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    Neighbor said they had it surveyed. I went to the tax map office they told me there was no survey done. He just found the corner pins. Should I be able to see these pins the surveyor found?
     
  17. zebra

    zebra 2-Year Member

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    May 21, 2013
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    My concern is the saftey issue of two fences back to back not to mention how bad it looks from the road. Our houses are side by side. If I remove my fence, the neighbor will have no acces to the one foot of land because my yard is inclosed with a fence. Am I responsinble for the one foot of land or the neighbor? I consider the neighbors fence a spite fence. The neighbor showed me how my fence was on thier property they never said a word about me removing it.
     
  18. zebra

    zebra 2-Year Member

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    May 21, 2013
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    The front pin is next to my driveway. The entire drive is on my property. The fence starts at the end of the drive. This is where the surveyor stick is 5 inches over in front of the fence. At the end of the fence (at the garage end) the surveyor stick is in a line with the first stick.
     
  19. zebra

    zebra 2-Year Member

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    May 21, 2013
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    I have a copy of the 1909 plat shows both properties have pins at the corners. Each property is 55 feet wide.
     
  20. zebra

    zebra 2-Year Member

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    May 21, 2013
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    I agree. I had no problems with the owner until she got a boyfriend who is the one installing the fence.
     

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