Share:
Notifications
Clear all

ALTA/NSPS Question

Page 1 / 2
Steven Metelski
(@steven-metelsky)
200+ posts Member

I'm being asked to provide a quote for an ALTA survey. The client only wants one building shown out of multiple buildings and parking lots.

Can the omission of physical features be negotiated on an ALTA/NSPS survey?

Page 4, Item D states "The location of buildings on the surveyed property observed in the process of conducting the fieldwork."

To me, that item is not negotiable. In fact, the way I read the ALTA requirements, anything on pages 1 through 8 has to be done. The Table A items compliment the required info and do not allow omissions of said requirements.

Can Table A Item 20 be used to modify which physical features are being contractually omitted? I cannot contractually omit "deed research" for example so how can I contractually omit physical features (minus utilities and encroachments within 5 and ten feet respectively) under an ALTA/NSPS survey?

I would offer the contract under a regular survey, but I have a feeling I won't be able to educate my client unless I'm in the wrong here with my assumptions.

 

Thanks

Quote
Topic starter Posted : May 18, 2022 5:43 am
Topic Tags
Kevin Hines
(@kevin-hines)
500+ posts Member

IMHO it isn't the client that decides what is shown or not.  The Table A requirements are decided by the lender and the title insurance company issuing the policy against the land. The buyer or seller paying for the survey shouldn't be considered as the client, only the project financier, since the attorneys and bankers are who decides what is needed in order to insure and finance the purchase.

That opinion aught to be worth a cup of coffee instead of only two cents.  Let us know how this turns out.

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 18, 2022 6:17 am
RADAR, FL/GA, Squirltech and 1 people liked
Jim in AZ
(@jim-in-az)
1,000+ posts Member

The Standards are the standards. Item D is quite clear. When I get requests like this I tell potential clients that if I don't adhere to the Standards I can't title the drawing an ALTA/NSPS Land Title Survey.

It's your seal - you get to decide what to do, not your client.

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 18, 2022 6:26 am
RADAR, FL/GA, Lurker and 1 people liked

Bruce Small
(@bruce-small)
1,000+ posts Member

Seems iffy to me and I wouldn't do the survey, but, I suppose you could put a fat note in several places on the drawing saying something like: Buildings, parking, utilities, and other physical features in this area not located at the request of the client.

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 18, 2022 6:57 am
Peter Ehlert
(@peter-ehlert)
1,000+ posts Member
Posted by: @jim-in-az

The Standards are the standards. Item D is quite clear. When I get requests like this I tell potential clients that if I don't adhere to the Standards I can't title the drawing an ALTA/NSPS Land Title Survey.

It's your seal - you get to decide what to do, not your client.

I do agree. If the dictated standards are not used it should Not be titled "ALTA/NSPS Land Title Survey" because it clearly is not.
==

I have done several surveys like was requested ... but I vary carefully used a different drawing title. 

I did detail in the notes on the drawing the Difference(s) from an ALTA.
That note (and the drawing title) was approved by all parties before I proceeded.
The bottom line was that the Lender(s) were happy, and the total cost to the client was less.

*In my opinion NSPS needs to assist with the refinement of the standards to fit the real world.

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 18, 2022 7:20 am
Jitterboogie
(@jitterboogie)
1,000+ posts Supporter

Is the potential client basing these requests on older Versions of the ALTA standards?  They were really overhauled last year in 2021 so maybe sit down and see if what they're asking for was something that got updated and you can explain it to him by showing them the new standards and the new standards hold.

I'm just an unlicensed survey tech / field pig, do just take that with a grain of salt.

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 18, 2022 7:37 am

Lurker
(@lurker)
500+ posts Member

Agree with what the others have stated. An ALTA requires those items, without them it is not an ALTA and shouldn't be represented as such. I believe anyone reading an ALTA survey should be able to expect the items listed for an ALTA to be  shown on the survey.

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 18, 2022 7:42 am
Norman Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
5,000+ posts Member

It's a standard, not a suicide pact. See my signature line, below. If the lender and the title company are OK with not showing all internal structures then it is going to be fine. A lot of transactions consummate with no survey at all, or maybe just a simple foundation survey.  But if the purchaser doesn't have those parties on board with the alteration in advance, there is bound to be trouble. Just make sure to document the agreement. And you will have to add an addendum to the certification.

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 18, 2022 7:49 am
RPlumb314
(@rplumb314)
200+ posts Member
Posted by: @kevin-hines

IMHO it isn't the client that decides what is shown or not.  The Table A requirements are decided by the lender and the title insurance company issuing the policy against the land. The buyer or seller paying for the survey shouldn't be considered as the client, only the project financier, since the attorneys and bankers are who decides what is needed in order to insure and finance the purchase.

That opinion aught to be worth a cup of coffee instead of only two cents.  Let us know how this turns out.

Is it possible the client is misinterpreting what the lender/title insuror want here? I've had that happen more than once. It never hurts to get the lender/title insuror requirements in writing.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 18, 2022 8:28 pm

Kevin Hines
(@kevin-hines)
500+ posts Member

@rplumb314

Yes, this is definitely a possibility.

Before I provide an estimate for ANY ALTA, I provide the client with the Minimum Standard Details for ALTA/NSPS Land Title Surveys with Table A included and ask him/her to have the title insurance company & lender provide the Table A sheets with their requirements checked off.  No two ALTAs are the same, so if you estimate one without knowing all of the requirements, you're shooting yourself in the foot.

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 19, 2022 5:44 am
Jim in AZ liked
James Fleming
(@james-fleming)
5,000+ posts Member

The "surveyed property" is not always the entirety of the overall record legal parcel, but sometimes a portion thereof.

For example, if I'm performing an ALTA survey where rights on the roof on one warehouse are being transferred by lease for the purpose of installing solar panels; and my final description on the face of the survey reflects the portion of the parcel that is being leased or encumbered, then I am comfortable omitting other improvements on the parent parcel

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 19, 2022 6:07 am
Spotteddotdog, Lurker, Norman Oklahoma and 1 people liked
James Fleming
(@james-fleming)
5,000+ posts Member
Posted by: @steven-metelsky

The client only wants one building shown out of multiple buildings and parking lots.

This wouldn't happen to be in Princeton would it?

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 19, 2022 6:35 am

Kevin Hines
(@kevin-hines)
500+ posts Member

@james-fleming

In the situation you described, you aren't doing an ALTA, you are doing a utility easement. You might be doing your utility easement to ALTA Standards.  My interpretation of the LAND TITLE SURVEY is that the Title Applies to the parcel as a whole, the Title Insurance Company can select a portion of the parcel to insure based on their review of appurtenances to said parcel and graphically illustrated by the ALTA Plat of Survey. 

The original question was can certain Table A requirement be shown, in part, and still be considered an ALTA?  The general consensus is YES, as long as the standard deviation is somehow noted on the final product, perhaps as a footnote to the certificate. The deviation explanation would probably differ from one surveyor to the next, for their personal preference of their own end product.

My opinion/interpretation may be wrong, but this is mine until convinced otherwise.

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 19, 2022 6:48 am
James Fleming
(@james-fleming)
5,000+ posts Member

@kevin-hines The standards seem pretty clear to me that the surveyed property can be the entirety of the property or "an interest in the property"

The remainder of any recorded lot or existing parcel, when the surveyed property is composed of only a portion of such lot or parcel, shall be graphically depicted. Such remainder need not be included as part of the actual survey, except to the extent necessary to locate the lines and corners of the surveyed property, and it need not be fully dimensioned or drawn at the same scale as the surveyed property.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 19, 2022 7:14 am
Kevin Hines
(@kevin-hines)
500+ posts Member

@james-fleming 

I stand corrected.

ReplyQuote
Posted : May 19, 2022 7:22 am

Page 1 / 2
Share: