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Electronic Recording
Posted by kscott on March 4, 2021 at 3:09 pmBefore the Colorado legislature is a bill that requires each governmental entity to have in place by 2022 the option to accept electronic delivery of documents to be recorded. It allows the acceptance of a scanned copy by email or through a ‘secure file transfer system.’ Do any other states currently accept the filing of subdivision plats in this manner. I see no issue with a scanned original document with wet signatures but I can’t figure how to get electronic signatures of all parties to a plat along with the recording information on the document without “blowing up” the secure signatures of the other signers.
Are any other states recording documents by electronic submittal and if so how are the signatures protected.
jitterboogie replied 3 years, 1 month ago 13 Members · 24 Replies- 24 Replies
And notaries. How exactly will that happen?
I suppose you can have the dedicator sign the plat electronically in the presence of the notary.
Then how do the commissioners sign?
That’s for subdivision plats. For other documents it’s already happening.
I think that most states have digital signature laws by now. You can digitally sign and save a document that has been previously digitally signed by others – you just can’t alter that earlier digital signature and then save.
The thing that worries me is long term storage of the digital document. I’m not aware of any digital storage medium that guarantees to remain viable even 20 years into the future. What about 50 years? 100?
@norman-oklahoma
The ability for multiple parties to sign is the answer I was looking for. So it is possible to have a succession of signatures without blowing up the previous signatures.
That brings up the question of what software is needed for all parties to sign off on the document and what is the cost of such software? And are the various secure signature applications compatible with each other?
We would like to address these concerns before this bill becomes law. If any other concerns arise I would like to hear about them also. Thanks.
- Posted by: @norman-oklahoma
The thing that worries me is long term storage of the digital document. I’m not aware of any digital storage medium that guarantees to remain viable even 20 years into the future. What about 50 years? 100?
the “industry standard” to save copies in multiple formats and multiple mediums in multiple Locations (redundancy)… much like we as Surveyors make multiple measurements with various tools for error trapping…and record the results.
However, the sophistication of local agencies is always suspect, that is a very valid concern.
We need to be the watchdogs. The new Adobe program I bought has a digital signature capability. Haven’t used it yet. I don’t know how others will add their digital signature, but I’m sure soon technology will figure it out.
Over a decade ago I prepared an article that appeared in Spring 2009 issue of Ohio Surveying News about digital signatures. Multiple digital signatures and certifications were available then. Naturally the technology has advanced since and is addressed in Adobe support community 2020 post titled “Multiple digital signatures” with a similar question and the answers.
As I was plotting a mylar yesterday I started wondering why we’re still doing that still. I’m sure mylar came about as something that was more durable than linen, and could be used in a blueprint machine.
Now no one uses a blue print machine, so why couldn’t it be plotted just to paper, while not as durable, can safely make the trip to the Recorder’s office to be scanned. And then, why not just submit an in-house scan or digital dwg?
It makes more sense to me than still plotting to this plastic that is more susceptible to damage by mishandling and the elements.
Colorado did revise the statute last year that eliminates the requirement for film. So we can prepare a plat on paper which gets scanned into the record and the paper returned to the surveyor for safe keeping. It now becomes the surveyor’s responsibility to store the original for the minimum number of years which might be 10, or 13 or maybe forever. The counties and municipalities have not all addressed this issue in their codes.
It is the multiple signature part of subdivision plats that I haven’t figured out with confidence.
@dallas-morlan
Thank you for that reference, I will check it out.
@kscott I use docusign. You can set the signing order so that once person a signs it goes on to person B etc. I then use simplifile to record the plat. It cost and extra $10 to e-record but I will never go back. No more trips to the register of deeds office after, or having to sit around wasting time waiting for somebody to sign something.
Colorado AES Board Rule 1.6.A.7. Retaining Land Surveying Documents. The sealed, signed, and dated reproducible, or a copy of all documents displaying the licensee??s seal, signature, and date, shall be retained and made available by the licensee or the licensee??s employer for a minimum time period not less than the applicable statute or repose, pursuant to section 13-80-105, C.R.S.
That’s ten years for discovery, three years to bring action after discovery (13 years worst case scenario) and repose only applies if you have the statement describing it on your document or you provide it to the client within ninety days of delivering the document.
Happy Birthday, I wish 66 was in my future instead fading out in the rear view mirror!
Sorry to be a curmudgeon but a wet signed Mylar of a subdivision map/ROS in B/W stable ink, no BS electrostatic Xerox powder technique, should be filed at the County Courthouse and put in the vaults. Vellum, silver halide, Mylar etc. maps survive for hundreds of years, maybe thousands. That is the definitive map and scans, electronic originals (ACad, Microstation, PDFs etc.) become unrecoverable as the decades pass due to software obsolesce, media failures and “gosh, we have these 4″ floppies but no reader to open them.”
I’m OK with a comitant electronic submittal so the GIS guys can tune up their database. I read a wide ranging article on archival data storage and they concluded the hierarchy was scratches in stone, followed by vinyl phonographic albums, with ink on stable media coming in a close third. Electronic files of text or maps was considered ephemeral.
The actual physical map, filed or recorded over the counter is the gold standard and “electronic” submittals are fraught with confusion and obsolescence as the decades pass. I don’t like it.
My only beef is that they even mentioned email. An Attachment( is never secure, no matter what anyone says, period) is easily stripped off and violated.
The only way to legitimize that process is to use a system like docusign, or hell the system that the friggin courts use. No email, no way. Learn the technology before you try to pass laws on how to mandate it.
Your statement is incorrect. While Sec. 13-80-105, C.R.S, does have three scenarios, there is not a 10-year discovery.
The statute also references Sec. 13-80-101. General limitation of actions – three years. In their wisdom, the Colorado Legislature has variable time frames dependent on the profession. For land surveying it is three years, but with some gotchas. Under subsection (3) if the land surveyor does not include the statement on the plat, the Colorado Court of Appeals ruled in 2002 that there is essentially no statute of repose.
Sec. 13-80-105 (3) (a) The limitations set forth in subsections (1) and (2) of this section shall not apply to any survey unless the documentary evidence of such land survey contains, clearly depicted thereon, the following statement:
NOTICE: According to Colorado law you must commence any legal action based upon any defect in this survey within three years after you first discover such defect. In no event may any action based upon any defect in this survey be commenced more than ten years from the date of the certification shown hereon.…Case Notes
ANNOTATIONThis section contains a 10-year statute of repose that sets a date after which a claim may be barred whether or not an injury has been discovered previously. Cornforth v. Larsen, 49 P.3d 346 (Colo. App. 2002).
Under the plain language of this section, in order for the 10-year statute of repose to apply, a survey must contain the notice required by subsection (3). If a survey does not contain the notice, the 10-year statute of response has no application and a plaintiff may sue a land surveyor outside of the 10-year time frame. Cornforth v. Larsen, 49 P.3d 346 (Colo. App. 2002).
The above only applies when the surveyor either willfully or inadvertently omits the notice. If the surveyor does include the notice then subsection (1) applies.
Sec. 13-80-105 (1) Notwithstanding any statutory provision to the contrary, all actions against any land surveyor brought to recover damages resulting from any alleged negligent or defective land survey shall be brought within the time provided in section 13-80-101 after the person bringing the action either discovered or in the exercise of reasonable diligence and concern should have discovered the negligence or defect which gave rise to such action, and not thereafter, but in no case shall such an action be brought more than ten years after the completion of the survey upon which such action is based.
The text in red above states that the statute of repose for land surveyors is provided in Sec. 13-80-101. The text in blue clearly states that the clock starts upon the discovery of the defect or when “reasonable diligence and concern should have discovered” the defect in the survey. In other words, say the land owner discovers a defect one year after the survey is signed. The land owner must initiate a court acton within three years of the discovery (i.e. 4 years from the survey being signed).
Okay that is the second case. I’ve highlighted the third case in magenta. In no case can a party bring suit after 10 years have elapsed IF the Notice is on the plat. It is not a 10 year period to discover the defect and an additional 3 years to bring suit. If the land owner waits beyond 10 years, they are precluded from filing a claim against the surveyor.
When I brought this to the attention of the Board during the public rulemaking hearing last year that they may wish to further clarify the three different time frames there was only chirping crickets. 🙂
Now I know that Colorado surveyors often produce records that are signed and sealed but not deposited or recorded at the county. I don’t do ILCs so I don’t have that issue. For the occasions that I prepare a surveyor’s report, I keep a copy as a matter of my professional practice. I bring this up because the new rule is essentially meaningless (at least from an enforcement viewpoint) for all signed and sealed “documents” that are either recorded or deposited at the county. As you note the rule states:
The sealed, signed, and dated reproducible, or a copy of all documents displaying the licensee??s seal, signature, and date, shall be retained and made available by the licensee or the licensee??s employer for a minimum time period not less than the applicable statute or repose, pursuant to section 13-80-105, C.R.S
[tongue in cheek]The portion in red basically means that all I have to do when requested by the AES Board to produce a copy of my signed and sealed document is to obtain a copy from the county Clerk and Recorder’s office in a timely manner and forward that to the Board. Now I know the Board Rule says that I shall retain a copy, but if I’m able to make a copy available to the Board in a timely manner, who is going to know I didn’t retain a copy at my office. [/tongue in cheek]
Thank you. Do you include the Recorder in the signing order for the entry of recording information?
Thank you for the clarification Gene.
I look at this basically the same way. I would say that the courthouse isn’t the only repository of surveys. I have far more surveys recorded outside the county courthouse system than in it. The SEO and O&G commission being two places to find surveys.
Of course, those surveys are also records that are available to the public.
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