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Practicing without a License

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Skeeter1996
(@skeeter1996)
1,000+ posts Member

@holy-cow So you're a "LLS" and a LE?

Back in the day. Engineers got a Surveyor's license when they attached a Wheaties box top to their application.

If Bill was around he would educate you on the proper use of the terms Licensed and Registered. Do you wear a collar with your license tag on it?🧐

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Posted : May 13, 2022 1:40 pm
Skeeter1996
(@skeeter1996)
1,000+ posts Member

Engineer Surveyor is also a term that irks me.

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Posted : May 13, 2022 1:41 pm
Skeeter1996
(@skeeter1996)
1,000+ posts Member

They aren't Professional Land Surveyor's like George Washington was. I don't want to hijack this guy's post, but this would be a great conversation over a couple of good whiskeys.

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Posted : May 13, 2022 1:45 pm

MightyMoe
(@mightymoe)
5,000+ posts Supporter

PLS is the correct term.........the late, great Paul Reid explained that to me. 

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Posted : May 13, 2022 1:57 pm
holy cow
(@holy-cow)
10,000+ posts Member

@skeeter1996 

Technically speaking, I have three licenses from the State of Kansas to conduct business.  Two of those licenses are controlled by the Kansas State Board of Technical Professions.  The five categories of licensure they control are: Architect, Landscape Architect, Professional Engineer, Geologist and Professional Surveyor.  Engineer and Surveyor are the only two that specifically add Professional ahead of the category.

https://www.ksbtp.ks.gov/home

Study the link.  You will find the term "license" used repeatedly throughout.  We are licensed to practice.  Without the license, there is no practice.

My third license is from the Kansas Real Estate Commission to be a Licensed Real Estate Salesperson.

No box tops in my history.

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Posted : May 13, 2022 2:57 pm
Skeeter1996
(@skeeter1996)
1,000+ posts Member

@holy-cow Real Estate License! One of my favorite licenses of incompetence.

You must have a wall full of "Licenses". Driver's License...🤔

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Posted : May 13, 2022 3:02 pm

FrozenNorth
(@frozennorth)
500+ posts Member

@skeeter1996 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrection

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Posted : May 13, 2022 3:04 pm
Skeeter1996
(@skeeter1996)
1,000+ posts Member

@frozennorth 👍

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Posted : May 13, 2022 3:08 pm
Skeeter1996
(@skeeter1996)
1,000+ posts Member

@holy-cow State Licensing Boards are another one of my heartburns. All they do is collect "revenue" by selling "licenses". They do very little policing of their licensees. Continueing Education is left up to State Societies to fund and regulate.

This post was modified 6 days ago by Skeeter1996
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Posted : May 13, 2022 3:13 pm

Jon Payne
(@jon-payne)
500+ posts Member
Posted by: @skeeter1996

proper use of the terms Licensed and Registered

Registered means placed on a list, licensed means given authority to perform some defined action.

Registered used to be used in several states.  I expect the change over in most cases was to clarify that it was not simply a register of people claiming to be surveyors, but a group of people who had been provided authority to practice.  Similar to how doctors can be board certified, but still need to be licensed to practice.

Washington's 4 year professional career in surveying is outlined here: https://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/washingtons-youth/surveying/  

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Posted : May 13, 2022 3:57 pm
RADAR
(@dougie)
5,000+ posts Member

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Posted : May 13, 2022 5:06 pm
Ric Moore
(@ric-moore)
500+ posts Member
Posted by: @skeeter1996

@holy-cow State Licensing Boards are another one of my heartburns. All they do is collect "revenue" by selling "licenses". They do very little policing of their licensees. Continueing Education is left up to State Societies to fund and regulate.

Interesting take...

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Posted : May 13, 2022 7:40 pm

BushAxe
(@bushaxe)
500+ posts Member
Posted by: @tfdoubleyou

I had a call come in from a homeowner wishing to build a fence. He said he had already had the services of a 'surveyor' but that there was some discrepancy and that he wanted a second opinion.

He explained that after calling through a handful of google results and finding 10-12 weeks out being the norm, he got to a guy who provides Aerial Mapping Services. This guy advised that he could come out and mark his lines within a few days, for $200. The homeowner said he came out with some type of 'machine' and staked the boundary line in question. When asked later, the aerial mapper said he relied up on publicly available GIS parcel data and GPS to mark the line.

Upon marking, the homeowner felt it wasn't right. He asked the 'surveyor' if he was sure, was told it was close though 'it probably wouldn't hold up in court'. When the fence estimator came out, he offered to check a distance with a measuring wheel from one known corner and said that the stakes appeared to be 6 feet out of what the plat says, but smartly clarified he was not a land surveyor and recommended homeowner hire one.

Sensing trouble, the homeowner pulled out all of the stakes set by the aerial mapper and is asking me for a price and schedule for a certified boundary survey.

Homeowner provided me information on the aerial mapper, and I see he is young, recent college grad, with a very new drone business. Offering everything from aerial mapping, inspection, stockpile volumes, to real estate, wedding, and live event aerial video. My read is that he is a kid with a drone and a Part 107 willing to do anything anyone is willing to pay him for. I think he probably means well but is ignorant of where his limits are.

I am in North Carolina. If this kid told homeowner he was marking boundary lines, I believe he's practiced without a license. I don't know what methods he used to locate those lines, but I don't think it matters. The homeowner called him to mark boundary lines, mapper came and put stakes in the ground, and charged a fee. He is not a PLS and does not appear to be supervised or in any other way involved with one.

My first inclination is to call this kid up and offer some unsolicited guidance and advice, and perhaps send a few statues for him to review. Thoughts?

 

Call him. If you are hesitant, give me his number and I will call him. 

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Posted : May 14, 2022 2:19 am
Murphy
(@murphy)
500+ posts Member

@skeeter1996 

That varies greatly from state to state.  North Carolina does a good job of going after unlicensed and/or unscrupulous practitioners.  

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Posted : May 14, 2022 4:32 am
Jon Payne liked
Skeeter1996
(@skeeter1996)
1,000+ posts Member

@murphy Two of the worst Surveyor's in the State are on the Board. The only Surveyor to lose his license on the last 10 years or so was convicted on Drugs. It was a felony, no action by the State Board. Week later when he was out on probation he assaulted someone in a bar. Another felony, assault. Served a couple of months on State prison. Gets out and starts Surveying again. Finally one of his clients complains and the Board suspends his license. Didn't revoke it, suspended it which means he can get it back if he meets the terms only known by him and the Board. Next time there's an opening on the Board,.I'm betting he'll get it.

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Posted : May 14, 2022 10:10 am
RADAR liked

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