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Colorado Law CRS 38-51-107(2) 20 years rule Land Survey Plat vs. Monumented Survey Plat

Gromatici
(@gromatici)
10+ posts Member

I need help understand the intent of this law.  So it says that a plat is not required if the "monuments accepted or set are within a platted subdivision that was filed in the clerk and recorders office within the previous twenty years".  So I think I understand this to mean:

 

1. If your surveying a lot in a subdivision recorded 21 years ago, and you go out and find monuments at the corners, you don't have to deposit a "Land Survey Plat" or "Monumented land Survey". 

2.  The portion quoted above, where it says "or set" is confusing to me.  I would assume that if your setting corners you would have to comply with CRS 38-51-104.  Is that correct?  Is the "or set" just referring to the surveyor who set them 21 years ago? 

 

Here is another related question:  How would you describe the difference between a "Land Survey Plat" and a "Monumented land survey"?  They seem very similar to me but I feel like I'm missing a nuance. 

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Topic starter Posted : November 26, 2019 12:59 pm
BStrand
(@bstrand)
1,000+ posts Member
Posted by: @gromatici

I need help understand the intent of this law.  So it says that a plat is not required if the "monuments accepted or set are within a platted subdivision that was filed in the clerk and recorders office within the previous twenty years".  So I think I understand this to mean:

 

1. If your surveying a lot in a subdivision recorded 21 years ago, and you go out and find monuments at the corners, you don't have to deposit a "Land Survey Plat" or "Monumented land Survey". 

2.  The portion quoted above, where it says "or set" is confusing to me.  I would assume that if your setting corners you would have to comply with CRS 38-51-104.  Is that correct?  Is the "or set" just referring to the surveyor who set them 21 years ago? 

 

Here is another related question:  How would you describe the difference between a "Land Survey Plat" and a "Monumented land survey"?  They seem very similar to me but I feel like I'm missing a nuance. 

1.) I think it means the exact opposite of what you think.  If you do a survey (finding and accepting pins, or setting missing pins) in the lot of a subdivision that is 20 years old or less you do not have to record a survey.

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Posted : November 26, 2019 1:05 pm
John Thompson
(@john-thompson)
50+ posts Member
Posted by: @gromatici

I need help understand the intent of this law.

Me too.  Looks to me like causes a 20-year gap in the documentation of monuments in a subdivision, and I'm not sure why the legislature thought that was desirable.

I agree with BStrand.  If you accept monuments or if you set monuments within a platted subdivision less than 20 years old, no plat is required to be deposited.

38-51-102(13) says a Monumented land survey means  a land survey in which monuments are either found or set...to mark the boundaries of a specified parcel of land.

38-51-102(11) defines a Land survey as "a series of observations and measurements...for the purpose of locating or restoring any real property boundary."

38-51-102(12) says a Land survey plat means a plat that shows the information developed by a monumented land survey...

So a Monumented land survey is the process (a series of observations and measurements)  and the Land survey plat is the product (the drawing).

 

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Posted : November 26, 2019 4:25 pm

WarrenWard
(@warrenward)
200+ posts Member

When the plat deposit law was enacted in 1987, surveyors submitted ink drawn Mylars. The objective was for subsequent surveyors to have an accessible repository of surveys to find out if an area had been monumented and how that surveyor reasoned his set monuments. Since subdivisions were already of record, it seemed unwieldy to have to redraft surveys in a freshly set subdivision with little value to future surveyors, so 20 years is a random time period to exempt subdivisions. After 20 years, most subdivisions become so "faded" that it seems helpful for surveyors to deposit their retracements for a record of their new set monuments. If EVERY monument set required a deposited land survey plat, the law 38 51 107 likely would have failed in legislation

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Posted : November 26, 2019 10:33 pm
Gromatici
(@gromatici)
10+ posts Member

OK thank you for helping! So if the subdivision is 20 years or younger than I can set monuments for lot corners and not file anything? So let’s say I show up and do a survey of a subdivision that’s 25 years old. I show up the lot corners of been monumented and the surveyor set pipes and tags, but he did this a year ago.  I mean since there’s no filing requirement back when the subdivision was only 24 years old how do we know that he should have filed a map because he only did it a year ago When the subdivision was 24 years old?

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Topic starter Posted : November 27, 2019 5:14 am
WarrenWard
(@warrenward)
200+ posts Member

If today you set a monument in a subdivision that was recorded 19 years 11 months ago, then you are not required to deposit a land survey plat. If the subdivision was recorded 20 years 1 day ago and you set a monument, then you must deposit a land survey plat. And, if you send a land survey plat or any kind of map that is not required to me, I will deposit it. 

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Posted : November 27, 2019 6:00 am

John Thompson
(@john-thompson)
50+ posts Member
Posted by: @gromatici

So if the subdivision is 20 years or younger then I can set monuments for lot corners and not file anything?

That is my understanding.

Posted by: @gromatici

since there’s no filing requirement back when the subdivision was only 24 years old

There is a filing requirement if the subdivision is 24 years old.  Maybe I don't understand your question.

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Posted : November 27, 2019 6:00 am
BStrand
(@bstrand)
1,000+ posts Member
Posted by: @gromatici

OK thank you for helping! So if the subdivision is 20 years or younger than I can set monuments for lot corners and not file anything? So let’s say I show up and do a survey of a subdivision that’s 25 years old. I show up the lot corners of been monumented and the surveyor set pipes and tags, but he did this a year ago.  I mean since there’s no filing requirement back when the subdivision was only 24 years old how do we know that he should have filed a map because he only did it a year ago When the subdivision was 24 years old?

I guess I don't understand the question.  Are you saying a subdivision got created 25 years ago but the surveyor waited 24 years to set the pins?

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Posted : November 27, 2019 8:51 am
Gromatici
(@gromatici)
10+ posts Member

@bstrand

Sorry.  Just trying to understand this.  What I mean, is this:  Let's say a subdivision map was recorded 20 years ago and 2 months.  I get hired to do a survey of a lot.  I show up to set the corners, but they've all been set.  I still have to file a map right?  Unknown to me, another surveyor was there two weeks ago setting the corners (it's a long story).  He is NOT going to file anything, but in reality, no one knows if he set the pipes two weeks ago, or 5 years ago. He's a really old surveyor, and there is no way for anyone to know when he set them. See what I'm saying?  How do we know that other surveyors are complying with this law?  Seems like an easy law to circumvent. If you're newly licensed, and someone finds your pipes in a 22 years old subdivision then it's obvious your set them recently and should have filed a map.  But if you've been licensed 45 years, you can pretty much get away with setting pipes and walking away without filing anything so long as the client agrees not to disclose the timing of the survey.

In a few of the States I'm licensed in, you have to file something when you set something, no matter what.  Land Surveyor's violate that all the time.  Just wondering how surveyors deal with this law.

Is the standard of practice to deposit a survey plat anyways, or NOT to deposit one?

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Topic starter Posted : November 28, 2019 11:31 am

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