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Create new points from existing points in TBC and do elevation shift

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OleManRiver
(@olemanriver)
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Ok this is easy to do in excel it is has been my go to way. I bring raw data into TBC. Qa/qc the data. The. Export to csv file. I then have to compute new elevations based on design and re as built those in the field and the cycle keeps going on basically the same points just keeps getting a new elevation.  I know civil3d will do a elevation adjustment on import export I believe. What i wondered is as i manage my project in TBC I can do all types of selections from the handy dandy tricks @rover told me in another thread. Why can’t i take that selection and do the computation and create a new group of points with just a vertical shift raising the elevation and then when I export it goes straight  to the field for staking etc. i bet its like 3 clicks and done. I just been exporting and doing it in excel and then creating the new csv. But since this is repetitive for the next several years so is it a way to do this in TBC. Sometimes its 4 points sometimes 500 points.  

 
Posted : November 17, 2022 12:06 pm
jim.cox
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in TBC you can use 'Transform survey points' to apply a delta to a group of points, or more than one point at time. 'Move survey point' can do the same thing, but it is one-at-a-time

It moves the TBC points, so f you want to keep the original points you might need to work with a copy.

 

 
Posted : November 17, 2022 1:27 pm
OleManRiver
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@jimcox I did open a test tbc project and imported a csv file of 500 points. I then did the transformation and did add a elevation shift and it works great. And i can renumber all my points and add a prefix etc. is there a way to select the points i comped before i renumbering them. Transformation basically adds the point to the same point. So i have that same point from the imported points file and the new point same name under office entered. So i had to delete the csv file in order to keep the adjusted point. I saw where i can select by fixed adjustment etc. if there is an easy way to only select the new comped points then i can just renumber them. I am a tbc rookie so i am sure there is a way so i can add them to a new layer . Etc. and the. Select by layer to export every day.  I might can read up on using macros and do it that way. I am just trying to manage the lifecycle of my project and eliminate as many unnecessary steps as possible. On any given day I could have 3 plus crews all needing different points for different layers so it is a hassle. And the way it has been done before me is not bad but I spend a lot of time exporting and navigating to different places on a server to store them. And such.  Thanks for the help. Greatly appreciated. Its amazing how quickly some of the things can be done in tbc. Just thought I might be able to get my idea to work. Is all.

 
Posted : November 17, 2022 1:40 pm

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jim.cox
(@jimcox)
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I am no TBC expert - but I think the points remain selected after Transform.

If not, the 'Selection explorer' on the right mouse click has some save options that might work for you

 

 
Posted : November 17, 2022 1:48 pm
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OleManRiver
(@olemanriver)
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@jimcox sorry i am at a extracurricular activity of my daughter. So I see another possibility as well. Could i copy points by a layer selection etc. then renumber them. If that were possible i could select them and do the transformation. And I would have it licked as well. I am still learning how to select different points as staked and such from that fancy advanced selection tool. That query is really nice.  I have so many things going on in the same area that from topo staking as built bim inventory daily that i would hate to have crews start different job files every task in the field. They might as built something and then turn around and stake something or topo something in the same area. So i would literally end up with job files with a few observations in each daily.

 
Posted : November 17, 2022 1:50 pm
jim.cox
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You 'should' be able to do that.

I know you can select by layer - and you can rename points - then export as csv.

I'm just not sure how to preserve the original points if you want them in the csv too. You might need to manually combine new csv with old. Or reload the original points after you have done the transform.

I dont know if TBC can do copy/paste of a point - one would think it should - but I can't find a copy / paste menu and CTRL C and CTRL V dont seem to do anything.

Like I say, I'm no expert here

 
Posted : November 17, 2022 2:03 pm

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Rover83
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I agree with @jimcox, Transform Points would be my method too.

Are you talking about shifting observed points? or design entities (could be points too I guess)?

I'm trying to wrap my head around a project that needs more than one or two (global) vertical adjustments during construction. Typically it's a targeted area, like a curb return or a building pad, that needs some field fitting, and it's rare to go back to all of our data and shift it all together.

What type of project is this? I'm curious about the workflow and why there is a need for multiple shifts.

 
Posted : November 17, 2022 2:08 pm
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OleManRiver
(@olemanriver)
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@rover83 yes this is a rare project. I am still wrapping my head around it. There was an original design. So we had to certify to points the first layer of grade was correct.  So we stake them out and record that. If it is in specs they move to next layer. But i have to take the as staked elevation and raise it because it has a minimum cover. So in simple terms if its a cut it’s good. That keeps going for multiple layers. Unfortunately we can just do a surface and make that work it has to be specific points chosen by client. Over and over again. So I bring in the job file and ck everything and then export the as stake points add the new minimum elevation and back to the field so when we as built next layer i rinse and repeat. Many layers and none are all done at once. So what i want is to keep the tbc project one. And place the different job files as staked to correct layer and take that and adjust.  So transformed points works justhave not figured a way to rename them without losing the firs phase.

 
Posted : November 17, 2022 3:22 pm
Jitterboogie
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Another thing you can do is use the layers in TBC like C3D and confine the original points in like the "0" layer and the transformation points in their own layer, TBC has loads of great tools and tricks I'm missing right now, so I'll pine away about those good ol days...

that way you can create a prefix or suffix and keep them segregated and clean.

 

 
Posted : November 17, 2022 5:21 pm
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OleManRiver
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@jitterboogie nice I will be trying that. I need you and rover to come train me lol. Every thing I learn to do in civil3d i try and figure out in TBC. And vice versa. Then once I feel like i am zipping through it on both i do a stop watch and making a cheat sheet for which is less key strokes or clicks and which is quicker. That way once i am down the road a bit i will be able to see which way i do things that are easier and quicker. And less chances of a blunder. I did play around today with computing points from a cad line.  I believe that it was quicker in TBC than the way i was taught in civil3d. But i am sure civil3d has a million ways to do it i am learning. The more time actually getting to sit and work in TBC the more I like it. In the past it was here adjust this fix this get back to the field. So i was using more gps and least squares knowledge itself vs TBC functions at that time. Today was really the first time i went through and started sorting data by layers based on codes or point numbers and other things it allows. Man that is a sweet trick. My screen was so colorful lol. Made it so easy to pull up and FaceTime with my crew chiefs and say what’s up in this area of red points. He said man that is nice and told me what was going on. So i was able to move on. I am putting together a list of things I want to know how to do for getting a trainer in. Just trying to figure out most myself first so i can ask the right questions.  To get my money worth.

 
Posted : November 17, 2022 5:33 pm
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Jitterboogie
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@olemanriver 

I'll send you a PM I've got secrets to share...

oh wait...no such thing as secrets... 🤣 

 

 

 
Posted : November 17, 2022 7:44 pm
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Rover83
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@olemanriver

Interesting project - is this a leach field for a mine by any chance?

Good for you getting all the layers set and maintaining a single database, that's something that sadly few operators really learn to do.

 

I'd love to just do training again for a job. I'm about at the end of my rope with my current employer...I certainly wouldn't mind just doing training for Trimble, but I'd have to do that through a dealer or go to work for them directly.

It's especially discouraging after attending Dimensions last week. Surveyors are going to get steamrolled and left in the dust if we can't adapt to emerging technology. I've about had it with backward-looking leadership and PMs who care for nothing but shoving work out the door.

Not to mention that surveyors are the absolute worst when it comes to purchasing tech and refusing to pay for training. No money in that. I might end up switching to the construction side, or possibly an energy firm, if things keep going the way they are.

 
Posted : November 18, 2022 7:02 am
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christ lambrecht
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So many ways to select points in TBC. Why not use the point spreadsheat view in TBC, select your range and make a selection set with a logic name. You can reorder by name, date, ... the options are limitless!
In the selext points dialog you can also select on (multiple) fieldcodes.

 
 
Posted : November 18, 2022 8:14 am
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OleManRiver
(@olemanriver)
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@rover83 pm me. If you want to go directly to Trimble i van connect you with a guy and i will tell him you would be great and it might help open a door. I was a trainer for them at dealership level and personal level for military training. That was years ago. I have no worries hanging my hat on your abilities from reading here. Yes we have technology that we buy and use as if it was still 1980. But we have fed our crews fish instead of teaching them to fish and now they can’t do what is needed.

 
Posted : November 18, 2022 8:16 am
OleManRiver
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@christ-lambrecht i will try this.  To be honest the best thing would be to create a surface and keep raising it in the field. But we are contracted to certify to a specific point. Now I could create a surface and use that vertical and stake horizontal to the point. I could even create a new surface in the field in access but that scares the ls. So he wants everything to come through office. I am not in the field and our field folks we have ones I would trust and others need more time in the saddle. Just have not had that time that makes the hair on your neck stand up and say something is wrong. They will get to that point for sure.

 
Posted : November 18, 2022 8:26 am

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