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Field to Finish - Civil 3d Top and Toe of Wall

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Tyler Brown
(@tyler-brown)
10+ posts Member

Have any of you come up with a good way to automate the labeling of top and toe elevations for retaining walls? We currently use two separate label styles.. the first is for the top elevation and it has a leader attached and the second is for the toe elevation with the leader hidden. This seems to be one of the slower aspects of drafting a topographic survey and I would like to speed it up if possible. 

Any other methods that may be more efficient? 

This topic was modified 5 months ago by Tyler Brown
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Topic starter Posted : June 7, 2021 4:59 pm
Jitterboogie
(@jitterboogie)
1,000+ posts Member
  1. Multi code In the field. i.e. pick an edge and measure the thickness of the wall, set your offset, then collect the edge that gives you the longest uninterrupted line. Access allows this, I have no experience with Leica or Carlson
  2. HW TOP HW BOT.  Toe is a slope, Retaining walls are usually vertical. Collect the BOT after the Top because crossing breaklines, yeah.
  3. Retaining walls will need ground shots, and likely will have grade brakes too, depends.
  4. Make sure your DC SOFTWARE exports to your C3D or the software you use for your lines and figures.
  5. I'm riding on the years of work this team developed before I got there, and have only added minor tweaks due to other structures that we collect in irregular time-frames.
  6. Labels should be pretty straight forward based upon the point description styles and layers(again C3D)
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Posted : June 7, 2021 5:34 pm
Rover83
(@rover83)
500+ posts Member

If you have two separate shots for top and toe, modify your point label styles and description key sets to display appropriately...

Otherwise,

Civil 3D user-defined property

I use them all the time. We collect data that has both a descriptor code and various attributes and notes. All get exported into a CSV with additional fields beyond the usual (and limited) PNEZD. I modify fields and contents to get whatever I need labelled using the point label style, rather than separate multileaders.

Sometimes the crews measure the height of the wall and we do the calcs to get the top elev, add it to the appropriate attribute, and it is automatically labelled with the toe.

 

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Posted : June 7, 2021 6:06 pm

FairbanksLS
(@fairbanksls)
200+ posts Member

I'd survey the top and toe as a 3D poly line and then label the 3D lines appropriately using the Carlson command label polyline segment.  Not field to finish but a quick process.

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Posted : June 7, 2021 9:13 pm
Jitterboogie
(@jitterboogie)
1,000+ posts Member

Here's a raw snapshot of a complex inlet structure with no tweaks yet:

 

IMG 20210608 103537953

 

Was more an experiment with GPS.

I DONT LIKE ASBUILTING WITH GPS.

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Posted : June 8, 2021 9:37 am
BStrand
(@bstrand)
1,000+ posts Member

I've worked at places that did it a couple different ways.  One wanted us to shoot the centerline of the top of the wall and then offset that line to get the edges.  The other place wanted edge of concrete shots (for example) along the actual top edge.

I would mask the surface under the wall at both places but I probably liked the centerline method a little more because you wouldn't get the crossing breaklines error as much during drafting.

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Posted : June 8, 2021 10:22 am

Rover83
(@rover83)
500+ posts Member

@bstrand

For me it's type of wall that determines how I tie it in and display it.

If it's a retaining wall or otherwise affecting ground surface (i.e. flow of water across ground), top and toe will be observed and serve as breaklines in the surface.

If it's just decorative, freestanding and/or effectively the same thing as a fenceline, elevations at base are observed, I offset the correct width and I'll note the height.

There are rare exceptions, but for most design topos the engineers are happy with that method.

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Posted : June 8, 2021 10:52 am
Dave Drahn
(@dave-o)
100+ posts Member

Definitely something tedious I've been doing a lot more of lately with grading plans and I'd be really interested in looking into it if I could justify the time.  But my first thought is that it seems that creating an 'expression' for the component that labels slope would do this.  You'd pick 2 points and it would express it as TW, BW and HT (= TW - BW).  If I do get time on it I'll try to remember to get back here with it.

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Posted : June 8, 2021 10:58 am
Dave Drahn
(@dave-o)
100+ posts Member

Got it (well, 85%...)

in dwg settings (or template), nav to Surface-Label Styles-Slope-Expressions.  right click New. Create WHT, wall height. format result as Elevation and express "{Surface Slope Elevation 1st Point}-{Surface Slope Elevation 2nd Point}".

Under Surface-Label Styles-Slope, create a new label Wall Height. Set text contents to "WHT <insert new WHT expression here at whatever precision you like)

I also created expressions for TW ( {Surface Slope Elevation 1st Point} ) and BW ( {Surface Slope Elevation 2nd Point} ) so I could create a label "Wall Info" which includes all  3 bits of info.

The missing 15% is that I don't see right off how to create a drag state for any of them and that when you create a label for just TW or BW you still have to pick the two-point option and make sure you're always selecting TW point first and BW point second.

Thanks for getting me thinking about this though.  Will save me some time.

acad CbHTu1STJf
acad ovr62yiX2Z

 

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Posted : June 8, 2021 12:38 pm

Dave Drahn
(@dave-o)
100+ posts Member

Got it (well, 85%...)

in dwg settings (or template), nav to Surface-Label Styles-Slope-Expressions.  right click New. Create WHT, wall height. format result as Elevation and express "{Surface Slope Elevation 1st Point}-{Surface Slope Elevation 2nd Point}".

Under Surface-Label Styles-Slope, create a new label Wall Height. Set text contents to "WHT <insert new WHT expression here at whatever precision you like)

I also created expressions for TW ( {Surface Slope Elevation 1st Point} ) and BW ( {Surface Slope Elevation 2nd Point} ) so I could create a label "Wall Info" which includes all  3 bits of info.

The missing 15% is that I don't see right off how to create a drag state for any of them and that when you create a label for just TW or BW you still have to pick the two-point option and make sure you're always selecting TW point first and BW point second.

Thanks for getting me thinking about this though.  Will save me some time.

acad CbHTu1STJf
acad ovr62yiX2Z

 

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Posted : June 8, 2021 12:38 pm
Jitterboogie
(@jitterboogie)
1,000+ posts Member

We created a UDP for inlets sanitary, potholes, etc and yeah, the expression is a great tool in the process.

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Posted : June 8, 2021 1:22 pm
R.J. Schneider
(@rj-schneider)
1,000+ posts Member

Seems like Carlson had the really cool setup for something like this in their curb elevation labeling routine.

Really came out looking nice when you set up the correct fontsize and text angle

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Posted : June 10, 2021 6:46 pm

RobertUSA
(@robertusa)
100+ posts Member

You can easily have the labels placed as the points are inserted into the dwg. All you’d have to do is drag the labels around, so I’m not sure what you’d need to spend so much time on that needs “sped up”

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Posted : June 11, 2021 6:23 pm
BStrand
(@bstrand)
1,000+ posts Member

@dave-o

I would probably just leader to the wall in a couple spots and say "Nominal Height=X". But your way is certainly fancier. 😎 

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Posted : June 12, 2021 8:37 am
Dave Drahn
(@dave-o)
100+ posts Member

@bstrand That's probably fine for an as built topo dwg, but grading plans require accurate modeling for earthworks, drainage and meeting local codes.  They also need data points at changes in alignment and top of wall grade breaks.  Sounded to me like the OP models these and is looking for a way to parametrically pull this data from the dwg for labeling without typing and hand calcing each spot. But your way's certainly more vague 🙂 and I'm sure useful in many applications.

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Posted : June 12, 2021 8:47 pm

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