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Deformed bars as property corners
Posted by paden-cash on April 20, 2021 at 1:12 amI’d like to present a question to my fellow surveyors:
Let’s assume as a given that deformed reinforcing bar produced after WWII adopted a “standard” of spacing the deformations using the formula 0.7xD; with D being the nominal bar diameter. Meaning a #4 rebar (1/2″ dia.) would have deformation spacing at 0.28″. Bars manufactured prior to WWII bore noticeably wider spacing.
Here are three in-situ property corner markers: Please note the rebar in the last image has greater spacing that the other two. Assuming the given as specified above one could deduce this bar was manufactured prior to 1946 or so and the other two sometime after.
These are lot corners found within a platted area dated 1932. Is the criteria above enough evidence to rely upon the older monument to be an original corner of the plat?
paden-cash replied 3 years ago 19 Members · 30 Replies- 30 Replies
NO!
Surveyors have used junk for corners since junk was available.Older rebars only mean that older rebars were available. The white color on that older bar could mean that it spent many of it’s early years reinforcing a concrete structure.
Paul in PA
I agree that it’s weak evidence, but if it’s the best available evidence, that’s what you go with.
- Posted by: @paul-in-pa
could mean that it spent many of it’s early years reinforcing a concrete structure.
I can’t tell from the picture whether the white is the result of being in concrete or if someone painted it because it was a hazard.
. This is open to interpretation by the surveyor. I have grown accustomed to finding four different types of bars/rods/you-name-it on a simple one-lot survey, so analyzing the potential history of each item gets lost in the proximity to theoretical location. But, I am one who searches beyond the lot in question as a rule to find corroborating information.
I am reminded of a manufacturing building in a small city in north central Kansas that was built during the middle of the WWII era. It was constructed entirely with what scrap iron that could be found as scrap drives were used as patriotic tools to encourage citizens to support the war effort in any way they could. A tremendous amount of welding had to happen to put all the short pieces of various shapes and sizes together to form a structure that was still being used six days per week 30 years later.
“I am one who searches beyond the lot in question as a rule to find corroborating information.”
Doesn’t everyone?
They’d better. These examples are not all the same lot. They are front pins along the same block.
My first crew chief used to pick up scrap pipe and rerod until he had so much rolling around in the truck he would spring clean on a big stakeout and set whatever iron was next in the pile
Around here pipes (open top & pinched) were the dominant monuments used until the late 60’s or early 70’s. When I find rebar in 100 year old subdivisions I can just about assume that it is not original.
similar here – pipes mostly up to 70??s and 80??s. I found 4 originals on a lot last week. There was no mistaking them given their age, condition, and positions. The owner was sure one had been destroyed by a small earthwork job. I dug it out from under 1.5 feet of soil and discarded old metal piping from the neighbors??s yard. The subdivision was created in 1951.
I will use age-of-bar evidence as proof that a found corner is not the original, but I won??t use it as proof that I??ve found the original.
A year or two ago, I met a surveyor that has access to an old farmstead filled with scrap. He is currently setting axles and other chunks of iron that date back to the early 1900s (I wish he described his corners in greater detail than “Iron Set”).
If it were me, I??d use some other metric to make my boundary decision.
Similar to barbed wire fence. You can date it to the years it was manufactured and know it wasn’t put up any earlier then that. But it could of been stored in the corner of a farmers barn for 50 years before it was actually put up.
So that rebar could of been manufactured in 1930, but sat in a scrap pile for 40 years until someone did some spring cleaning and a thrifty surveyor got a hold of it and set it in 1970 as a property corner.
I would hope everyone has trained their field workers to keep searching. Getting them to do it every time is a different topic of discussion.
What does the plat say was set?
This is probably one of the top 10 best posts of all time for not yet licensed Survey worker bees considering the final ascent toward toward the goal.
Far too many of our towns and their additions were created at a time when very few corners were set and those were probably wood stobs. The plats were filled in piecemeal like a crazy quilt as specific owners had a surveyor determine where their corners should be. This is why blocks today do not agree with the plat and many of the lots forming the block may have been prorated (or not). If working in Block 47, do not stray too far from Block 47 or you will introduce more chaos than what already exists. We have too many “on-paper only” plats. Some are obvious, such as one that was the southwest quarter of the southwest quarter of the southwest quarter of a section and the plat shows a square with measurements adding up to a perfect 660 feet.
And no this was not intended to become a click bait.
But if it did… ???
1932 would not have rebar of any type in these parts. Rebar as monuments started showing up in the 50’s.
Kent would have torn up this post…
-All thoughts my own, except my typos and when I am wrong.Pipes were far more common than rods as monuments prior to the 60’s in this area as well.
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