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Feedback from other Surveyors
Posted by Alyosha on October 26, 2021 at 9:58 pmI hope this is an appropriate forum for this. I’ve been thinking really hard about getting out of surveying after 11 years. I have been with the same company for more than 5 years, and I’m trying to decide how much of my problem is me, and how much is the company I work for. I would like to talk to some other surveyors about the things that are bothering me and get some feedback on how much of it is just the nature of the job, how much of it is bad business practices, etc. Is this an appropriate forum for this kind of conversation?
thebionicman replied 2 years, 5 months ago 19 Members · 21 Replies- 21 Replies
We would certainly welcome such discussions, but I would suggest you be selective about what you post, re: personal information, etc. Just make sure you are within our Community Rules and you should be fine. 🙂
Your friendly, virtual neighborhood WebmasterI definitely want to hear about your issues. I’m in the latter part of my career, and have many observations and opinions about our chosen field, so I’m very interested.
Thanks guys. We perform a variety of surveys, from topographical surveys, to boundary surveys, to construction staking, to monitoring surveys, with the majority being in boundary and construction. I think the majority of my concerns can be put into two related categories. First, feeling like we take on more work than we can responsibly manage, and second, that we rely too much on our crews.
The other companies I have worked for had a pretty even split between office staff and field staff, with as many (or neary as many) licensed surveyors as full-time crew members. With the previous companies I worked for, the licensed surveyors were not always in the field, but they were fairly often, and they seemed to always have a pretty thorough familiarity with everything that happened in the field. Currently, we have way more field staff than office staff, and it is very overwhelming for me. It has also made it difficult to find a balance in how much work we take on. Out of fear that we will run out of things for the crews to do, we will start bidding jobs and making commitments to get things coming down the pipe, and then suddenly find ourselves juggling so many jobs that we are booked out for months and the “smaller commitments” like boundary surveys end up sitting on a back burner, unfinished for long periods of time, or we start trying to finish them up with incomplete field work because it’s been a month or more and we can’t get a crew out to finish it. In our efforts to keep the crews going, I feel like we are taking on more than we can responsibly manage. What’s a good balance of office staff to crew members, or licenses to crews in your experience? Any other imput that comes to mind is welcome as well.
For examples of the second issue, when I started working for my current employer as a crew chief, I remember feeling like a lot of decisions were left up to me and the other crew chief at the time. When I started working more in the office, I was basically handed a computer and told to start working out boundaries. I had a lot of unanswered questions, spent a lot of time struggling to work things out, and I always felt like I was being an inconvenience if I took problems to the boss or asked for input. I got almost no training, and none without asking. While I know that a surveyor cannot babysit his underlings, I had a good educational background in surveying, have never been considered a slow learner, and I honestly just didn’t feel like I had been properly trained. I thought there would be some on the job training or mentoring before being expected to work out boundaries, or at a minimum, that my work would be thoroughly reviewed and critiqued until I gained a certain level of proficiency. While I have been in the office, there have been a number of surveys where I felt like information was missing that we should have, gone out to the field to look, and found important evidence that the crews had missed. It is not uncommon to have the crews find evidence that should have been gathered in the first place only later when they are setting corners. It’s been so frustrating that I’m starting to hate boundary surveys, and I often struggle to wrap up a survey because I just don’t feel confident in the product.
I have spent a lot of time feeling like I am the problem and I am just not cut out for surveying. Maybe I’m too much of a perfectionist. Maybe I am a slow learner after all. Or maybe there’s just parts of surveying I’m not good at. Sorry for the novel. And thank you to anyone who gives me feedback, even if your feedback is critical. At this point, I’m just trying to decide if I need a change of employer, or a change in careers.
I’m seeing two issues here.
One is company management, and the other is a lack of mentoring.
Which is pretty much par for the course.
The perfect doesn’t – at least in my experience – exist. Every company has its own quirks, flaws and flavours. Your place sounds like crisis management – as in it is always a crisis. Any sign of leadership or future direction? Didn’t think so.
And as for the lack of mentoring and training. Well, sometimes you just have to jump in with both feet and see where the wild water runs. By the end of three to five in that environment you will be an old hand, know what you are doing, and be comfortable with it.
So where will it get you personally? – that three to five with penal servitude. Will you be where you want to be? Do you get a licence? Or are you just the old sergeant that keeps being dumped on?
Better and different places do exist – me I’d be looking ’round…
Just my nzd$0.02
=J=
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Even if you generally find no purpose or joy in your day to day work life, if you ever have moments that you ARE proud of your product or excited by finding that elusive monument, then it’s the right profession for you.
The best time to look for another job is when you already have one.
In my opinion, It’s past time for you to move on. Find a company that’s more compatible with your personality and professional aspirations.
Some tension between productivity and quality is normal in any job, but it sounds like you are being stretched.
Am I right it isn’t your stamp that goes on the product?
But if you’ve hung on for 5 years you must be doing good enough work and enough work that they haven’t wanted to replace you and the company hasn’t been sued.
It sounds like you aren’t getting the support you need either from above or below. If you need your supervisor to make a decision that you feel is above your pay grade, or explain something you have not been trained for, you should not be made to feel you are a nuisance. A good boss wants to know what the subordinates are dealing with and what is holding up their progress.
Are the field crews also feeling uncomfortable pressure to hurry up and finish whether or not the job is done right, or do they not care, or do they also need more mentoring?
Is realistic scheduling considered when quoting new jobs? It sounds like that might be an area for improvement. A small job should be given its assigned schedule time regardless of what else comes in. A day on that job is peanuts to the big project schedule.
$0.00
.I know that’s you Jeffrey Lucas; quit playing with us.
Seriously, much of what you learn in your indentured servitude (or experience as some refer to it), is how not to do things. There is some value in that, but you should look around and try to get some experience also from a good company that has solutions to some of the issues you raise (there are solutions).
Good advice from all.
Obviously we’ve no idea whether you’re cut out for surveying or not. But it’s pretty obvious that you’re in a bad place right now. Good companies, or good working situations do exist. It can be tough, though, to find the balance between money and enjoyable work life.
It sounds like your current place is looking for high volume, more billing, and not so concerned with quality. Maybe you’re making more money there than you would at another place. But you have to make that decision, especially since you’re still in the point in your career where you need some mentoring and direction, what’s more important to you right now.
If you need the money you’re making right now, then maybe stick it out and try to change things. Otherwise, I’d say that you should look for a smaller company that needs a mid-level person, somewhere that’ll probably be a little less stressful, but may not offer the money and perks that your current employer does.
I just re-read your posts, and I see that you didn’t really complain about money, that was just my assumption, about why you’d stay at a place for that long if it was that stressful. If it’s not an issue, then find another place, and you may actually start to enjoy what you do.
Sounds like an overall management/company issue to me. Your Boss has a boss and he answer’s to him, he/she might be in the same position you and and are not provided the proper training or time to get things done. That said, that is not within your control so you must control what you can control. It sound like you have the ability to be a good surveyor but are not trained properly. Talk to your boss, I assume it’s a PLS and let him know. He may not have a clue due to a variety of reasons, or he might just tell you that’s just the way it is. Either way, you need to have a discussion with them. I tell my staff of 10 that all the time, my door is open to talk about anything you want.
And remember, there is lots of work out there right now but it is hard to know the inner workings of new places before you get there. Hopefully you find the right fit.
You sound to me to be a good addition to this profession. I encourage you to find employment that fits you well. Life is short. It helps to enjoy your job, overall.
- Posted by: @alyosha
I got almost no training, and none without asking.
I worked for a 70 person engineering outfit specializing in large scale development projects in the office, essentially making maps. I asked for some training/mentoring concerning software and my supervisor said nope, we hired you at a premium because you are a PLS and assume you know what your doing; there is no training budget here.
They had no human resources department; hiring and firing was handled by the supervisors, and employment paperwork, timesheets by accounting. Also no sales department; big developers flocked to our door begging us to take on their projects. Their reputation was that they could handle tricky projects on time and meet a budget which other firms couldn’t compete against.
I was one of three PLSs, one was the field survey coordinator and the other was a in charge of surveys who I rarely interacted with. His PLS stamp was used exclusively; I suspect he was the most prolific signer of large subdivision, planned community, golf course, industrial park, etc., maps in the State.
After a year I was fired on a Friday, told to grab my stuff and be escorted out of the building. My supervisor told me no hard feelings, it’s their SOP layoff process. The reason I was being fired is that management foresaw a slowdown in the development business and the beancounters determined I was no faster than unlicensed draftsmen so not worth the premium and handed me a three week’s severance pay check. Fair enough.
I’m not saying it was a bad place to work, just different. Since 1976 they’ve expanded to a half dozen offices, so they must be doing something right.
One of the sage pieces of advice that I received along the way is to work for as many different survey outfits as possible so that I didn’t just learn one way of doing things, good or bad. Later I would know the difference and be able to choose. There’s always more than one way to skin a cat. One of the outfits I’ve worked for in the past was rather disorganized at the upper levels with very poor communication and I’d often get sent out to do a survey with little more than a highlighted tax map and zero guidance and I was still a fairly green party chief. At the time this was very frustrating as I’d have to stop on the way to the job and leave the rest of the crew to sit in the truck while I went in to the muni to get the various plats that I’d need. This was before all of it was available on line. That lack of support was frustrating, but years later I look back and realize that it was a valuable lesson and the experience I gained would later benefit me. Everything is a stepping stone. Don’t become fixated on your current circumstances. Learn from them. The most valuable skills you’ll develop will be transferable to any career path of your choosing and every job is just a stepping stone. You are not an indentured servant or slave. Figure out what works for you and take small steps in that direction. You’ll find after some years those small steps have taken you a long way. Good luck.
WillyI’ve been a pawn in that business model recently. And yeah, I’m glad to have learned, survived, and gotten an even better place to succeed. Crazy how that method is still so deeply ingrained.
- Posted by: @jitterboogie
Crazy how that method is still so deeply ingrained.
As I said to one frequent poster off-line this morning “surveyors tend to to forget that they’re only supposed to walk in their predecessors footsteps when retracing boundaries, not creating business models.”
@williwaw back in the day, when I was still sort of a green horn, my father in law had a chat when I was in a rough spot with my career. He ran a production plant for Firestone Tires. He told me that for atleast 10 years, I should never stay in one place, he said I should make a move every two or three years to learn different things and be exposed to different management models while also learning how to do the same things differently. I took his advice and did just that and it has worked well for me.
When it comes to management and employess relations, I’ve seen the good, the bad and the ugly. The same with field proceedures, methods and standards of care. These were all great experiences to have had under my belt when I moved into project management and upper management.
In the words of Kenney Rogers, “You gotta know when to hold up, know when to fold, know when to walk away and know when to run”. If you are stressed, feeling stagnant and not being taught the things you feel that you need to know, it’s time to make a move.
I’ve worked in a variety of firms, both large and small and have even run my own business with no administrative help. I know what it’s like to feel burned out and I know what it’s like to work in a fast paced but easy going family environment. Having all those experiences have provided balance for me and I’ve learned new things from each experience as well as being able to understand what works and what doesn’t.
I was sought out 7 years ago to start a Survey department for a mom & pop Engineering company. I started with myself, subbed field work out to friends that I trusted to get it done quickly and accurately and I had a lady with title company experience as my administrator. I have spent all of that 7 years mentoring people, growing staff and creating an environment where people don’t dread going to work. It has served me well, I have developed a staff of devoted employees who are eager to learn, listen to suggestions and answer questions all day long. Regardless of the backlog or number of jobs in the que, nobody works more than 40 hours unless they ask to, that’s not about the budget, it’s about providing a sense of balance when employees can spent time with their families.
I am training a Survey Tech right now who is extremely thirsty for knowledge. He is progressing well and is either in my office or calling me every day and has started working towards a degree in Surveying. That experience is rewarding to him and me as well. I want to be the guy to advance the next guy or girl who will sit in my chair when I either retire or die. I’m 57 years old, have worked hard to get to where I am and have overcome allot of obstacles to get to where I am.
My best advice to you is to make a move and try a different firm. Stick it out there for a few years and if it’s not a fit, make another move after a few more years. Sooner or later you will find your sweet spot but don’t abandon a rewarding career just because of your current situation and always keep in mind that that greener grass on the other side of the fence can turn to weeds with a change in management or ownership.
Sounds to me it’s time to look for a new job. Only you know if you’re cut out for it. The fact that you asked the question does make me wonder. Getting a new job will answer that question for you.
Sounds like a really bad surveying company without management and mentorship. Instead of questioning yourself, why not look for another company? You’re describing exactly how I felt at a construction staking company I previously worked at. And then boom I discovered a good company, doing mostly boundary surveys with good crew chiefs that were trained by RPLs, good mentorship and slow paced. Places like this still exists, just go out there and look for them.
There’s not much worse than dreading work every day. Sometimes the lessons about what not to do are just as valuable as those about what to do. The length of time you’ve been there says you’re not one to give up easily. That’s not a bad quality to have, hang on to it. Just from what you’ve written here, I don’t think you’ll have trouble finding employment.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loseSounds like a poor employer more than anything. If you suspect they do sloppy work sometimes then I would maybe move to either a government agency, or one of the larger design firms that works on the bigger public works projects. Those places will do jobs the right way, should have some sort of training budget, and might be a good fit for someone with a detail orientated personality like you seem to have.
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