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HELP NEEDED: Looking for some referencing/display help for GPS stakeout w/ Trimble TSC7 data collectors…
Posted by g on December 9, 2020 at 2:44 pmMy company is in the process of making the switch from Topcon survey equipment to Trimble survey equipment. We have seen some huge gains in efficiency and trustworthiness of the gear but one issue keeps popping up with my GPS stakeout crews. With Topcon, you have a few options for setting a reference for GPS stakeout…North/South, walking direction, azimuth, etc…but the one almost all of my crews use is a single point reference. It makes it like traditional conventional stakeout in that you can simply reference your base or any singular point as a visual reference to get your corrections…in/out, left/right.
We are using TSC7’s now w/ Trimble Access and it appears this is not an option…it’s everything but. As trivial as this sounds, it is giving my crews serious fits and is dramatically hurting their production, but even more importantly to me, their moral. They are not able to stake as much as they are used to and being the people they are, it’s killing them mentally. Realize some of these users have been using a single point reference for 15-20 years now for GPS stakeout.
I am looking for some insight on the best way others are navigating and fine tuning to stakeout points w/ Access in TSC7s. Unfortunately, since I am not part of field production anymore, I do not have the gear in hand to go out and play around and see what I can come up with. We tried doing azimuth referencing using 2 points on long control line to create an azimuth reference across the site, but that hasn’t been enough.
Anyone willing to share their stakeout reference settings and also the display settings they are using for stakeout? Any info, tips, or tricks would be greatly appreciated!!! Thank you for your time in advance!
DustinHarr replied 3 years, 2 months ago 11 Members · 20 Replies- 20 Replies
Access has a lot of options for stakeout, which are (usually) changed in the Survey Style.
I think this is what your crews are looking for: Stakeout navigation display
Expand the GNSS section for details and options.
Also, if you have SIM cards in your data collectors, create a shortcut to the Trimble Access Help Portal on the desktop. Crews can use the help manual right there on their controllers, and it’s a lot more comprehensive and easier to navigate than previous versions. Saves them (and you) the time of having to go through you to get every question answered.
“…people will come to love their oppression, to adore the technologies that undo their capacities to think.” -Neil PostmanAs rover83 said, you need the settings for the display adjusted.
from what I hear it looks as if you still stake points? We increased productivity by switching to staking to the line/arc and we always do it from a dxf that is prepared in the office.
We then stake from the map, you select a line and stake along the line with station and offset continiously visible.in a previous poste about staking I shared the settings to make, that was for TSC2, but not so much has changed in the settings.
Good luck!
good luck
There are many options for staking in Trimble, I will use the one that’s best for the situation, stake to point, stake to line, staking out a design highway, stake to a surface. I would have to see what you are trying to do, but if it’s a simple point staking how can it get much simpler than stakeout to point? It guides you there with an arrow, you set the style in the controller and stake grid N-S, or line and stationing, Az, Bearing.
You can look back at the gun and stake in-out, left-right.
It’s all set up in survey styles.
It’s a GNSS issue only and it’s with point staking which is the main way my company does stakeout. If you are long time Trimble users, I understand this sounding pretty basic and maybe even petty. However, if you had used Topcon your entire career for staking points with GPS, using a single point reference to direct you to the stakeout point, I think you would see where the learning curve would be frustrating. What my field crews are used to is setting a Base station up on site and having their stakeout referenced as them facing the base station, just like running a conventional instrument and having an I-Person directing you from the gun. You face your base or whichever point you have chosen and you get what would essentially be line of sight directions to the point you are staking.
In the attached screen grabs, in the first one, my base is set up, I am connected to my rover and close to where my stakeout point would be, #3000. I have told it in this grab I am staking 3000 and my reference is my base station, #1 (doesn’t have to be the base…can be any point for visual reference)…
In the 2nd grab, I am showing you the stakeout screen and how the corrections are provided…the left/right and forward/backward are referencing the line from wherever my rover is at ALL times, back to my reference point, which is the base in this example.
This makes workflow from robotics to GPS very easy because
both are referenced the same way essentially.
I have not been in the field for years but I agree with your crew. I always found it quicker to get to next point based as the total station being the reference point (anchor point). To the gun 50′ right 12 feet, rather than north 50′ east 12′ as the gps stakeout used. I used TDS and Trimble back in my field days and would write them and ask they add an “anchor point” to their gps stake out to no avail (and from quickly going to the Trimble link above it still looks like it is not available). You do get use to north by east reference in Trimble gps but it is not as quick and why do we as surveyors always have to make do with what software people think we need? Carlson might pick up on this suggestion if they don??t use in their DC??s but don??t expect Trimble too. Good luck, Jp
In the stake out a point routine in Access, under options at the bottom of the screen, on the second option screen, you can toggle from grid northing/eastings to azimuth, to show the rover’s relation to the stake out point. I nearly always select the azimuth and HD for staking out points. I use my compass to quickly determine the direction to the stake out point and eyeball the distance to get close, move up and tune up accordingly. It’s fast once you get the hang of it. The ‘stake a line’ routine is very user friendly for staking offsets, saving having to manually compute offsets to create a new line to stake. Key in an Arc is also much simpler than older versions in TDS and Survey Pro, but often I’ll just stake to the radius point and hold the radius distance to stake something on an arc if stationing isn’t critical. As others have stated, ‘Survey Styles’ is where you can set things up according to your preferences.
WillyThis is the way I just discussed with the handful of my crews that are finding this to be an uphill battle. I suggested they use N/E and carry a matchbox compass around their necks for easy access. My gut tells me, once each crew can mentally establish N on their projects, it will become much more intuitive. I just want to help them as much as possible during the transition.
100% agreed! I have sent a handful of suggestions to Trimble directly and through our vendors. I won’t hold my breath but we are a pretty large, new account that has negotiated a pretty hefty acquisition with them. We will make it through either way…just crazy to go on a wide open site for blasting stakeout and see the robots out, to be told it’s just easier than the GPS for stakeout.
I’ve not considered something like that for GPS stakeout. I normally can’t even see the base, I might know generally where it’s located, but it’s usually obscured.
They are having trouble pointing North it sounds like. Takes getting used to, if you don’t have an innate sense of north it can be a struggle.
Like others I always just used the azimuth and distance. I have a compass app on my phone and just learned to figure out where north was on each project. I was also along time Topcon user but used the same method since we used Survey Pro with both Topcon and Trimble.
That sounds like a great feature. Unfortunately, Access doesn’t have it. Many sites have me chasing a stake point around because I can’t maintain a mental fix on North.
I end up getting close, then use compass to face myself North. Works OK, but I hate having to dig out the compass.
I guess just made the assumption that a compass was as essential an item as a pencil in a survey vest, but then again I’m often surprised by how many people don’t carry one much less are proficient with it. Real time saver as I can almost never see the base and I’m not that big on wondering around like a lost puppy until I stumble onto my stake out point.
WillyI always carry a compass…I have a Suunto matchbox compass with me almost everywhere I go but most of my fieldwork for the company was boundary and site control origination. A lot of our crews are just stakeout guys/gals and don’t have the same background or skill sets accumulated during their career. I have faith they will get it but as we all know, us surveyors can be a fickle, stubborn bunch!
The other part of this that’s surprising to me is, like mentioned above, often times the base is out of sight so you adapt to learn where the base is by memory/intuition, which is the same exact discipline needed to use azimuths and north/south. I just knew where my base was directionally at all times and it was no big deal, same concept as knowing where north is at all times. A lot of guys will make the reference a point they can see from their current stakeout, it doesn’t always have to be the base.
Whether I agree with their complaints or not, it’s still my job now to make it as easy as possible for them. I think North is the ticket and if that means I am buying all the crews compasses, than I am buying all the crews compasses…haha! It just would be nice to be able to hold a single point reference/anchor point!
Exactly the issue I am having with my crews. If we always had to do it that way, it would be no big deal. Topcon has always had a single point reference option available so if you spent your career using it, then no longer had it, it’s borderline devastating until you adapt. I always assumed it was an option across the board bc it makes so much sense, especially when transitioning between conventional, robotics, and GPS…the referencing is all the same.
I’m doing a job right now staking a couple miles of ROW in a very large subdivision with bamboo snow wands to give the engineer on the job a clear picture of where they need to be. There’s 3′ of snow on the ground and I’m doing it all on snowshoes and temps lately have been below zero. Takes a lot of energy out of a guy so I use my compass to get as close to the stake out point with a minimum of wondering around and it rarely goes back in it’s pocket while I’m moving. I’d be burning a lot more calories out there without it. Engineer will drive the job and probably not get out of their warm truck.
WillyYou can buy level bubbles with integrated compasses for your rover poles.
Here is what Trimble will say. “No, that’s dumb, just reference grid North or the Sun”. It’s not that big of a deal and your crews will get the hang of it. Topcon probably kept the reference point to assist in the transition from Total Station work to GPS. Trimble will not be so nice. But the overall quality and dependability of Trimble over Topcon will overshadow this small adaptation you will have to overcome.
I have no controller with me but when staking with GNSS in Trimble Acces on TSC2 there??s a (small) North Arrow in the upper right corner I think. When you move 5 steps in a straight line the North indication on screen should be ok. Can??t imagineTrimble removed that for TSC7!
This is not intended to disparage the compass at all but if Access can??t do this a Garmin handheld once the base is stored as a waypoint is the bomb. GoTo. Set nav option for true or mag or user dec. best Garmin are the older models. Map76series and the king of the hill the map76Csx. Turn waas on and your under 2 m horiz in the open. eBay under $300 which speaks to how valuable these long deprecated models are.
@crid54 The TSC3 has a compass built in. You can turn on this feature when staking.
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