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Making Marks

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sireath
(@sireath)
200+ posts Member

I am curious how does everyone make marks on concrete pavement or sidewalks. I am currently using the old hammer and chisel and dot punch and would like to find out how others do it and if there is a faster way. Generally on concrete, I avoid putting nails unless they are for monitoring or long term control and would put proper nails with epoxy. Tried to used cheap nails but the head sometimes go missing a few months on.

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Topic starter Posted : October 26, 2020 7:56 am
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dmyhill
(@dmyhill)
1,000+ posts Supporter

Temp/semi-permanent (but hard to find) I scribe an X and make very precise notes in the field book on where it is

Permanent marks I drill a hole, fill with Lead and insert Tack (prefer a brass tack).

If I want permanent and to be able find it again with a locator, I will put a mag nail in the whole...problem is the head will almost always stick up. I don't know if a 1/16" bump qualifies as a trip hazard, but it annoys me.

Either way, the drilled hole in concrete is really the permanent mark. Scribes, if deep enough, can work for long term, but generally over a period of years they are smoothed to nothing.

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Posted : October 26, 2020 8:06 am
chris mills
(@chris-mills)
500+ posts Member

I dril a 3mm. hole in the concrete and then hammer in a 4mm. stailnless steel machine bolt, with countersunk crosshead. The threads cut into the concrete and it is there forever. The countersink means that it goes flush with the surface, it will never corrode and the crosshead gives a good centering point. I've found some I put in 40 years ago.

One thing to be careful of - if somebody lifts the kerb or paving slab and relays it elswhere!

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Posted : October 26, 2020 8:14 am
Brad Ott liked

MightyMoe
(@mightymoe)
5,000+ posts Member

for property corners like this:

mark

It's so easy with newer drill/drivers no reason not too. 

Even for long term control points, same thing. Just make sure they can't be confused with a property corner. 

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Posted : October 26, 2020 8:14 am
paden cash
(@paden-cash)
10,000+ posts Supporter

For concrete I've got a masonry drill bit and a cordless hammer drill.  The pilot hole is just snug enough to hold a mag-nail and small washer but large enough to allow the nail to be driven without busting the concrete.  I've also used expanding nylon dry-wall fasteners to tighten up the nail if it's too loose.  I've had good luck with their longevity.

I've also got a cordless small diameter paneling saw with a composite blade for cutting x's.  A few years ago our BOR defined a "set" cut x as improper due to the fact it didn't bare the proper info of a cap or washer.  At lunch with a member of the board (and a life long friend) I was asked how I was handling the new requirement.  I told him I wasn't having any problem at all...I just noted the 'X' I cut as being 'found' instead of 'set'... 😉

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Posted : October 26, 2020 8:26 am
A. Sellman, dmyhill, Norman Oklahoma and 3 people liked
Stephen Ward
(@stephen-ward)
1,000+ posts Supporter

@paden-cash I use a 1/4" bit for the 1/4" magnails but I always drill the hole a bit deeper than required then fill the hole in with the powder left over.  The nail goes it so tight that you'd have to bust the curb to remove it, but just easy enough that the nail won't break as you're driving it in.

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Posted : October 26, 2020 9:37 am
Dave Lamberton, Brad Ott, paden cash and 1 people liked

John Putnam
(@john-putnam)
1,000+ posts Member

It depends on the purpose and desired longevity.  I use Bernsten 1-1/8" copper plug monuments for property corners and primary control points.  For secondary control that I want to stick around I use a cordless Dremel with cutting blade to cut an '+'.  For secondary control that is more temporary I just scribe it.  

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Posted : October 26, 2020 9:39 am
mvanhank222
(@mvanhank222)
200+ posts Member

I like using tapcon concrete screws. I will drill a hole just slightly larger than the head about 1/4” deep then run the 5/32” tapcon bit through the center of that and use a screwdriver to put the tapcon in. Rod tips fit nicely in the Phillips head screw and the slightly larger bit counter sinks the screw.

This post was modified 12 months ago by mvanhank222
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Posted : October 26, 2020 10:02 am
oldpacer
(@oldpacer)
200+ posts Member

Same here, Drill 3/16" hole for 1 1/4" Mag Nails, 1/4" hole for 1 1/2 Mag Nails. An 1 1/4" hole drill for recess. Does not require a super powerful hammer drill.

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Posted : October 26, 2020 10:03 am

Norman Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
5,000+ posts Member

I, like most in the Portland area, am using Bernsten-style 1 inch brass plugs. To drill the hole I've got a cordless hammer drill. I drill a 1/4 inch hole and then ream it out with 3/8 inch and 1/2 inch before finishing it with the countersink bit. That 4 bit process takes about 1 minute in total. I highly recommend getting a drill with SDS-Plus chuck, although a simple hammer drill will do the job. 

A 1/4" hole for a mag nail is duck soup. 10 seconds. Less work than pounding one into asphalt and far more permanent. 

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Posted : October 26, 2020 10:04 am
Edward Reading
(@edward-reading)
200+ posts Member

@chris-mills I'd love to see a picture of this if you have one. Thanks

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Posted : October 26, 2020 4:08 pm
sireath
(@sireath)
200+ posts Member

wow thats interesting. Seems like cross and drilling is the common method. Just curious do you guys make this kind of marks as well? 

 

Not sure for those people who drill. Are you lugging around the cordless drill hammer with your gear?

 

image
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Topic starter Posted : October 26, 2020 5:19 pm

Jim Frame
(@jim-frame)
5,000+ posts Member

That's what's known as a "crow's foot" around here.  They're not used much anymore, as we have to tag all corner markers.  If I'm just setting a control point I'll use a simple cross.  But we sometimes find old crow's feet marking corners that are right up against a wall or on a building corner a foot or two up.

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Posted : October 26, 2020 6:32 pm
Dave Karoly
(@dave-karoly)
10,000+ posts Member

The surveyor that surveyed my backyard used something like a cordless dremel to cut an X in concrete.

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Posted : October 26, 2020 6:46 pm
Larry Best
(@larry-best)
500+ posts Member

I find that for a 1/4" Mag nail in concrete a 7/32" SDS plus bit is the right size. The only place I found them is McMaster Carr.  

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Posted : October 27, 2020 4:41 am
dmyhill liked

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