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Old-School Surveying
Posted by gene-kooper on March 23, 2022 at 2:07 amA curiosity….When was the last time you conducted a survey using “old-school” methods and equipment?
For me, it was today. One of my mining clients asked me to conduct a quick survey of an new drift in an underground mine above Alma, CO. The mine owner needed 3D coordinates at the face of the new drift so they could drill and blast a new drift (tunnel) between it and the existing main haulage drift.
I had previously established control for the underground mine so a simple survey to connect the dots was all that was needed. So, following the principle of KISS, I went underground with my Wild T-2, two Wild illuminated target sets, 3 tripods, a 200 ft. steel tape and a plumb bob. The plumb bob was used to setup under the existing spads and as a backsight that was only 19 ft. long.
All done in 3 hours with the help of one of the miners.
ETA: Forgot to mention my Rite-in-the-Rain field book as the weather was very drippy! 🙂
fairbanksls replied 2 years ago 21 Members · 35 Replies- 35 Replies
It amazes me how few people can function this way. On the ‘other site’ there is a discussion where 20-year surveyors have never held a plumb bob. Imagine setting up the robot, creating a file, getting a backsight, then turning to a foresight, all so you can inverse one line. That is literally the process some of these folks are using to check a distance. God help us…
I Like “new school” surveying a lot and wouldn’t want to go back to old school surveying for a living. However, Last year I traversed and marked a couple lines on my property with the transit I learned on when I was about 13. I took it outside last Friday to show a couple new crew members. One is 28 with about 5 or 6 years experience but has never held a plumb bob for a sight. The vernier scale intimidated the young guys. The fact that it has a built in compass amazed them.. “such a cool concept”. The talk about chaining made them cringe. To chain a long straight line was an art they don’t care to learn. Maybe they learned that they have it pretty good….
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loseA bit more than 20 years ago on a job 75 miles from the office we arrived on site to discover we had everything except for the prism to use with the total station. It’s amazing what you can do to get the job done well through improvisation. MacGyver took charge. My young helper learned a great deal that day. He reminded me of that job during a recent conversation and how he had tried to open his son’s eyes to the possibilities than can be achieved by knowledge rather than tools.
The last time I ran a traverse with theodolite and steel tape was early 1993.
I might add that I left that job because I realized that technology was racing past, that if I stayed I??d soon be unemployable anywhere else.
We still use plumb bobs today. Still use T-1 and T-2 for our Astro and Magnetic work. But I prefer the Leica 6100a 0.5″ Theodolite. It’s nice to put away the high tech gadgets and “survey” from time to time.
Between 2006 and 2010 made an as-built survey of Fort Clinch on Amelia Island Florida using a Gurley transit made in the 1860’s and a 100′ steel tape. I was a volunteer living historian portraying a member of the 1st New York Engineers, who occupied the fort in the 1860’s. My survey party members were other volunteers. We only worked the first weekend of each month and not every month. The final drawing was made using CAD and not by hand. I still have the field book with all the field notes and sketches. I still use a Sipe-Sumner compass on a tripod from time to time to mark lines through the woods after the corner markers have been located using total stations. I also on occasion locate creek runs using the compass and steel tape measuring offsets from traverse lines to creek. I still enjoy using the equipment I learned to survey with, from time to time. I would not want to have to do it every day,
- Posted by: @thebionicman
On the ‘other site’ there is a discussion
There is another ??other site??, again?
- Posted by: @gene-kooperThe mine owner needed 3D coordinates at the face of the new drift so they could drill and blast a new drift (tunnel) between it and the existing main haulage drift.
I went underground with my Wild T-2, two Wild illuminated target sets, 3 tripods, a 200 ft. steel tape and a plumb bob.
Some of us Florida flatlanders have never seen pictures of ??Mine Surveys?, you got one of them camera do-dad thingy??s you can mount on your head the next time you this type survey? Thanks ????
A couple of times with my T2 and tapes in the early 2000’s (before the T2 got sold behind my back!!!). We were in a deep canyon and there were large ponderosa pines around a subdivision and the GPS units just wouldn’t work in there, static or RTK. Years later in the same area we blew through the area with the R-10s and R8s. But in 2001 (I think) it was a solar and old school surveying with the T2.
Last time I used it on a large survey, the solar was iffy since the sun wasn’t visible much and it didn’t match a subdivision plat by 3degrees. But when I got GPS in there the solar was only 1.5 minutes from my GPS numbers so I was very happy. I also did some complicated house layouts before the robot showed up. It’s been almost 20 years now.
@flga-2-2 The mine does not have a string of light bulbs to illuminate the workings. Sorry, that spot on “my head” is reserved for the headlamp.
- Posted by: @thebionicman
Imagine setting up the robot, creating a file, getting a backsight, then turning to a foresight, all so you can inverse one line.
A robot would not work in this mine because the only light source is the headlamp on my hard hat. By that, I mean that the automatic target recognition doesn’t work worth a darned in a dark tunnel.
BTW….a point of etiquette regarding chatting with miners underground. It is impolite to look at them while talking ’cause your headlamp is in their eyes.
- Posted by: @mightymoe
I also did some complicated house layouts before the robot showed up
3 years ago, I was in Nebraska, and had breakfast with a couple of guys I worked with, at the first job I had 47 years ago. They said they were still staking houses like we did in the late 70’s, early 80’s.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it…
I hope everyone has a great day; I know I will! It was the Ranger School reunion of 2017 and I talked Mike Webb into turning a few angles with my Wild T1A off of the newly installed Station Charlie.
@stacy-carroll for us older guys who cut their teeth on optical transits, steel tapes, plum bobs and old school LED scientific calculators, that’s all we knew back then but it gave us a better foundation to understand fundamental skills and learn to adapt when needed. That’s an art that is lost to progressing technology.
I get a good chuckle when the newer generations post chest pumping pictures of their data collectors showing flat checks extending out three decimal places and thinking their or their equipment is that precise. The have absolutely no understand of what compensating and systematic errors and could not care less because their devices said it so it has to be real!
- Posted by: @gene-kooper
BTW….a point of etiquette regarding chatting with miners underground. It is impolite to look at them while talking ’cause your headlamp is in their eyes.
Kinda like when you were a teenager, had a beer or two by the lake and got pulled over by the bored local cop who decided you had bloodshot eyes while shining a 5 cell flashlight in your face? ????
- Posted by: @gene-kooper
A robot would not work in this mine because the only light source is the headlamp on my hard hat. By that, I mean that the automatic target recognition doesn’t work worth a darned in a dark tunnel.
The Leica 1200 I use every day in an underground salt mine works just fine with very little light.
@ars-mine-surveyor I’d be very interested in reading about your experiences with the Leica 1200 underground. To be honest I just assumed that without any external light source ATR would fail to find anything. When I mentioned that to the rental company rep, his thinking was the same as mine; won’t work.
One way perhaps would be to set up a flood light at the backsight and foresight stations or have a pair of miners stand at each station illuminating the target with their headlamps.
Set up shop in a rural Florida county in the early 70’s. Still here, still surveying. Broke down some 50-60 sections using a 300′ steel tape/plum bob and a Kern DKM2AE 1″ theodolite. Started using GPS in early 90’s, then by late 90’s RTK had become standard tool for all section breakdown work. Nowadays, using latest/greatest GNSS systems, we are no longer surprised/amazed to collect shots on aliquot corners set circa 70’s-80’s (using steel tape/theodolite), and finding coordinates within 0.2′-0.3′ of calculated positions (positions calculated from new breakdowns applying GNSS derived state plane coordinates for control monuments). Gives a sense of pride seeing the impressed looks from younger guys.
or you could use trimble/geodimeter equipment that uses active tracking and works in the dark.
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