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Preferred first job
Posted by holy-cow on July 13, 2020 at 11:56 pmIF WE COULD go back and start all over in the wonderful world of land surveying which size of company of your first employer would be the best to motivate you to stay in the profession?
ONE LS leading one crew
ONE LS leading multiple crews
TWO LS leading multiple crews
THREE OR MORE LS leading more than six crews.
Larry Best replied 3 years, 9 months ago 18 Members · 18 Replies- 18 Replies
One LS, one crew
(in the fashion of one shot, one kill). 😉
- Posted by: @paden-cash
One LS, one crew
(in the fashion of one shot, one kill). 😉
While I agree with that in principle, it would really depend on the quality of the LS in question. Just because someone has obtained an “LS” doesn’t necessarily mean that they know their butt from a hole in the ground (or are actually competent to perform a particular task, project, or undertaking). 😎
I like “the more, the merrier” in order to get more and varied opinions.
My first surveying job at a municipal utility was with three party chiefs and three crews (no LS’s, but lots of experience) and later at a Municipal Public Works with a dozen or more chiefs (some having an LS) and a dozen or more crews.
I learned something different from all of them. What to do and what not to do.
Definitely a small shop, one LS one crew and one tech. Learn to work as a team – everyone has an important role.
My first job was 1 LS with 2 crews. But he wasn’t a particularly good LS. In fact, he ended up losing his license a few years later.
My 2nd job had 3 LS’s and 2 crews, but 1 of the LS’s was very much the dominant personality (his name was on the door), so it was pretty much as if there was one.
Third job had 2 LS’s, but, again, one was very much dominant.
And so on. I think it was my 6th job before there was more than one LS actually contributing LS things. Even then, there was one that very much dominant. Domineering would be a better word in that case.
The first time I was on a field crew with an LS – other than brief visits by office pukes – was the day after I got licensed.
So I think that more than 1 LS can be a negative unless there is enough volume and variety in the work that each can have a free hand in their area.
Preferably not with a firm that goes bust less than year in…
I’ve worked with a smaller firm that had 5 licensed surveyors (4 in the office one of whom was the survey dept head & split the field & office 50/50, the fifth was a party chief who was licensed & left eventually). All 5 had their merits but one of them was also a PE and majority owner so everything “had to be done his way” at least so long as he was watching. But they all had their merits. The owner saw things in terms of money & efficiency, the others had their strengths in terms of mapping or data import & analysis in the office and two of them had vast field experience. Granted I was only a PE with them but after almost 7 years of being around those guys I think I may have missed my calling as a surveyor haha
To be honest, I really like the my first gig out of school working for a medium size engineering firm. I’m looking at an old group photo & and can count six LSs plus including the president who was dual licensed and four crews. There were a couple of other LSs that did not were not in the survey department. It allowed me to work under multiple LSs and pull the good stuff from each, there was no real my way or the highway type. Our project load was very diversified including a good mix of large subdivision, commercial, utility airport and highway projects. The best thing was that I was hired along with another fresh of the press LSIT with whom I swapped office and field time in an order to make us both better surveyors.
Started with a company that had 3-4 crews and generally always had an LS (or close to taking the test) on the crew.
I was a fresh college grad and still foolish enough to think I knew everything. Luckily those guys didn’t give me too bad of a time about that and shared a great deal of knowledge with me. I was able to work on different crews with various people and see their perspectives. Didn’t really appreciate it at the time, but I think that is important. Too often, we get stuck in one-way thinking and stick with something because (why – because). If you are only working with one person who thinks that way, it may limit professional growth.
As a solo guy, I know I get locked into my way of thinking! Luckily, this board and some friends push me to look at things from other’s perspectives.
Start large as possible and end on your own.
I was blessed with two licensed (albeit one newly) PLS and one crew. Ralph was a mentor to both of us. Too bad the bottle took his life; many years after I moved on.
My first job was with a small engineering/surveying firm in my home town. One LS and one PE, two crews at the most. Because it was a small operation, I got thrown into the fire out of necessity several times, running a crew on a Forest Service job before I had ever run an instrument (the LS camped with us the first week and taught me how to turn angles and use the HP 3805 to measure distances).
My next job, I was the only technical employee of a newly formed company (had a person who answered the phones 4 hours a day). More getting thrown in the fire. I did everything from all the drafting to construction inspection on Indian Reservations.
I next worked for a slightly larger firm in the Capitol of California, working for the best party chief I have ever known, who was an LS. That was the early 1980’s and we remain good friends to this day.
I worked for a local utility company for a couple of years after that before going back to college. I mostly learned what not to do during that stint. None of the PC’s were licensed and the one LS who ran the shop couldn’t survey his way out of the parking lot.
Worked for a larger firm after I got licensed and was fortunate to have a very knowledgeable mentor who taught me enough that when he retired, I was no longer flying by the seat of my pants.
Went to the state government after that where I eventually ran a crew, managed the field operations, then managed the entire survey program with a staff of 35.
Looking back, working for small firms to start my career was invaluable, as it provided me with opportunities to take leaps that I wouldn’t have likely taken on my own. I learned from almost everyone along the way, positive and negative. One PC I worked for wouldn’t tell the crew anything about what we were doing, just barked orders. My first party chief in Sacramento included the crew (usually just me) on everything and often asked for opinions on how we should approach something. When I started running crews, I went with that model and it saved mistakes several times. If your rodman hasn’t even seen the plans, how can they know when a stake is in the wrong place?
Like almost everything in surveying, it depends. I agree with others, having an LS doesn’t always equate to being a good surveyor or a good mentor/teacher.
There are too many variables to provide a correct answer. I’ve had jobs with large and small firms that launched my career forward. I’ve also had jobs with both that squeezed the life out of me with little benefit. We all learn in different ways.
I suggest taking a first job where there are opportunities for education. After that every new job should be beyond your ability.
Viewed in retrospect, the preferred first job is dependent on the preferred last job.
Excellent point, Mr. Fleming. If one has a clue as to where they want to be with that last job. Most don’t. They have vague goals such as make a lot of money and control my own destiny. bBut the guy starting out doesn’t really understand whether or not any given position will suit them.
For some, the grunt life is fulfilling and helps with achieving other life goals at the same time. For others, becoming a wheeler dealer and traveling all over to meet with all sorts of people is fulfilling. Either extreme can be profitable and exciting………..or not.
How many today are doing precisely what they thought they wanted to do back when they took that first survey-related job? Little things like family situations, divorces, foreclosures, etc. come along that can divert one away from the track they believe they should be following.
door #1, monty.
i got started in the business working for my neighbor. actually started after the sign shop where i worked went under, and i was crying in my beer one night at the picnic table. anyways, 90% of his work load has been residential titles, but in the 5 years i worked for him i got NOT only, obviously, intensive personal guidance on how to do myriad things, from sharpening a machete to reading the subtext in all kinds of stuff (deeds, old tree lines), to learning how to run (and maintain) a gun and draft and whatever else at an undboubtedly accelerated rate. and after 5 years of that kind of work (read: reps), when i jumped out of the frying pan an into the fire of being an anonymous cad tech on a huge highway project, i was MILES beyond just about all of my work peers- some of whom had been playing connect-the-dots with autocad for longer than i’d been an adult. that was really eye opening in terms of what kind of experience many people DON’T have or ever get in this industry. yes, i had to catch up on techie-type stuff, but that was nothing. and now, when i could use a good tech in the worst way, it still holds true. good… upper level, unregistered surveyors (whether field or office) are incredibly hard to find these days, at least around here. and when you do find one, you hold onto them for dear life.
The job I had that I learned the most on had 2 LS’s and 1 crew. One LS pretty much ran the business end and the other LS acted as a crew chief who alternated with me as the crew chief on particular jobs. He would perform the research, take the crew out, bring back and reduce the notes, and draft the plat. Then I would research, take the crew and repeat the process. I wasn’t and LS (yet) and I learned a LOT from both LS’s. We got a lot of work done, but I don’t know about twice as much.
Andy
Size doesn’t matter – not here anyway. I’ve worked for at least 13 companies that I can remember, sometimes more than once, from 1 to about 50 employees. I like to think I learned something from them all, though some were great, some were not so much. It’s the people that count. Now I’m down to just me, at least until the vaccine, maybe for good.
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