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Mark Indzeris
(@mark-indzeris)
100+ posts Member

@williwaw Please explain.  I've been punished lately by trying to replace a couple of bent rods that turned out to be s-shaped and longer than normal.  I've got a high lift, is there a special attachment or did you fab something?  My lower back will thank you!

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Posted : December 1, 2021 1:23 pm
Williwaw
(@williwaw)
1,000+ posts Member

@mark-indzeris You just need a few feet of chain with links large enough to slip over the rebar, hook the other end over the foot of the jack and start cranking. They pull with the same force they lift. I have a 12’ tow chain I use. Works slick.

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Posted : December 1, 2021 1:50 pm
Mark Indzeris
(@mark-indzeris)
100+ posts Member

@williwaw Thanks.  On my way to the hardware store now to get some chain.  The rod man is gonna hate toting the high lift around 😆 .   Good thing it's rare that I'll need to use it. 

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Posted : December 1, 2021 2:05 pm

thebionicman
(@thebionicman)
1,000+ posts Member

@dmyhill except for the 100 or so years between GLO and recording.. 

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Posted : December 1, 2021 2:21 pm
Joe B
(@joe-b)
50+ posts Member
Posted by: @mightymoe

Pulled a rebar yesterday. It was about 10 feet from the corner math position and there is no history for it since my client is giving up his occupation of the land. Don't do very often, but sometimes you gotta get the channel locks out. 

I hope that one day I'm that sure of my determination that I can do that. 

If you don't mind me asking, what other variables did you consider when making this decision?  How large was the parcel, how long was the boundary line, and when was the survey originally done?  Was it originally run with chain and compass or is it a much newer survey?  Was there a monument called for at that corner at all?  How do you know it isn't a monument for an easement on the neighbor's property or something like that?  Do you need to research the adjoiner's parcel to decide that?  In many states unrecorded surveys and documents are valid.  In your state do unrecorded documents hold any weight? 

Obviously, I need to consider my own state laws and court cases, local practice, etc.  But I am just curious and interested in hearing more.

I am no expert, which is why I am asking.

Thank you

Joe

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Posted : December 2, 2021 4:04 pm
MightyMoe
(@mightymoe)
5,000+ posts Supporter

@joe-b 

The boundary is a small parcel inside a much larger one. The  small parcel is 7 Sections, or around 4500 Ac. This is a NE1/16th corner, part of a 40 that my client doesn't own but has always occupied. All original controlling stones are in place. The rebar was  set but not recorded in 1991. I reran my breakdown again when I found the rebar and it is math correct. No reliance was ever placed on the bar, it had to go. My client hired the earlier survey, and he was a stickler for "doing it right". His heirs are the same, I didn't need to ask if I should set the math position. My client "lost" a bit of land with my Brass Cap compared to the rebar. There are no easements or deeds besides aliquot descriptions for the two owners. No occupation, no utilties.

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Topic starter Posted : December 2, 2021 6:04 pm

holy cow
(@holy-cow)
10,000+ posts Member

4500 acres is the small parcel.  That is the equivalent of 31 percent of the land mass of Manhattan, New York County, New York.

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Posted : December 2, 2021 8:49 pm
Jitterboogie and Gary liked
aliquot
(@aliquot)
1,000+ posts Member

@dave-karoly 

Which is great if they have a quality cap, but the plastic caps people use for some reason will either be lost or illegible long before the rebar is gone. 

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Posted : December 3, 2021 6:09 am
aliquot
(@aliquot)
1,000+ posts Member

@oldpacer 

The only times I have pulled one is to replace it with a more substantial monument, and that is of course documented in a recorded survey. 

I think the idea that pulling them reduces confusion has some merit, but I have never been confident enough of a "monuments" history to know that no one will mind. Instead, to reduce confusion I make my corner more prominent, peramntly self identifying, and more substantial. 

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Posted : December 3, 2021 6:16 am

drakej6
(@drakej6)
10+ posts Member
Posted by: @holy-cow

4500 acres is the small parcel.  That is the equivalent of 31 percent of the land mass of Manhattan, New York County, New York.

As a surveyor who specializes in NYC surveying, I'm not exactly sure how to process this.  Hmm...

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Posted : December 3, 2021 6:30 am
MightyMoe
(@mightymoe)
5,000+ posts Supporter

@drakej6 

The larger parcel is 30 times bigger than the smaller one. Or as Crocodile Dundee said; "A hobby farm".

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Topic starter Posted : December 3, 2021 7:03 am
Norman Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
5,000+ posts Member
Posted by: @holy-cow

4500 acres is the small parcel.  That is the equivalent of 31 percent of the land mass of Manhattan, New York County, New York.

How many acres do you need to support a cow? ie/ how big a herd will 4500 acres support?

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Posted : December 3, 2021 8:47 am

Norman Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
5,000+ posts Member
Posted by: @thebionicman

@dmyhill except for the 100 or so years between GLO and recording.. 

Any parcel that has not been surveyed during the recording era is unlikely to have any rebar traverse points anywhere near it. So that's a wash. 

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Posted : December 3, 2021 8:51 am
holy cow
(@holy-cow)
10,000+ posts Member

@norman-oklahoma 

Rating land use for livestock is based on an animal unit, standardized at 1000 pounds of live weight.  Mature cows tend to run between 900 and 1400 pounds.  In our area the standard is four acres per animal unit.  In the arid regions of the West that number can grow to 100 acres per animal unit as much of the area does not grow much in the way of usable feed.

Driving across a portion of Southeastern Colorado, I commented that we were in an area where if you were to take a cow out there and turn her loose to forage on her own, someone might call the ASPCA on you for cruelty to animals.  In the arid regions, water sources become the limiter.  A cow will learn how far she can go from the water source to munch on edibles before she needs to head back.

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Posted : December 3, 2021 9:01 am
MightyMoe
(@mightymoe)
5,000+ posts Supporter

@norman-oklahoma 

Depends: Ranchers real product is their grass, the cattle are the processing units for the grass lands. It varies greatly, I know a small 20,000 Ac. ranch that ships out more cattle than a 100,000 Ac ranch. Some lands will support a cow every 30-40 acres and others will support one every 5 acres (that's the really prime grass). Plus you need lots of water, no water in the area, no cows to wonder over and eat. 

I watched a Netflix movie about an early okie, Montford Johnson, at one time the family had 1.3 million acres in Oklahoma. The drama maybe got a lil over the top, but the history is interesting to me.

As far as the 4500 acre piece, they lease out the place I think and I doubt it's real productive cause it's too timbered. At least 1/2 is yellow and lodgepole pine woods, needles aren't the greatest food source. But they have good water and decent grass along the valley floor.

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Topic starter Posted : December 3, 2021 9:37 am

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