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Trimble Access duplicate point tolerance bug

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Jaccen
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Posted by: @350rocketmike

@rover83 

I'm given a combined scale factor which I can use if running TS only, but it fits almost perfect with just selecting our UTM zone, nad 83 and the local geoid. Some jobs are site calibrated instead and some older jobs are scale 1:1, which means I can't use my vrs rover (I don't have a base). 

This is an area I need to spend more time researching just to have a better understanding. 

 

Sorry, just chewed over your response a bit more.  You can use a VRS rover for a ground sub.  We do it all the time here in SW ON.  PM me if you want to exchange cell numbers to shoot the poop on it for a bit.  I presume you are on Smartnet per the VRS statement?  We are currently using Topnet and Carlson, but the fundamentals are similar.

 

 
Posted : November 22, 2022 4:11 pm
Rover83
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Some older jobs are scale 1:1, which means I can't use my vrs rover (I don't have a base). 

I agree with @jaccen, VRS doesn't preclude site calibrations for local coordinate systems. It's just like setting a base up over an arbitrary point and getting a here position, then tying points with the rover for use in the calibration.

Definitely a problem if there aren't enough points to calibrate to, though.

I am deep in VRS-land, and even though it's a great tool there's a ton of misinformation and incorrect procedures floating around...

 
Posted : November 22, 2022 9:58 pm
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350RocketMike
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@jaccen 

Sorry I meant when site calibrations aren't a good option. We use cannet which is Trimble only. 

Also these are usually subdivisions that have been around a few years and already have lots of houses in them. In some cases I might be able to consider a site calibration as long as I can get good checks to existing building ties, but often it would take less time to set on some existing control and traverse to where I need to be. 

This post was modified 2 weeks ago by 350RocketMike
 
Posted : November 23, 2022 3:20 am
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350RocketMike
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@jaccen 

Yes this mainly all small residential houses in large subdivisions. The houses are usually just ground distances even if the rest of the job is in grid, these are very small houses on small lots. And the better formers can often get the corners of the walls within 0.015m 

The reason they've been trying to keep all the newer stuff in grid is so we can replace control when it constantly gets destroyed, without spending an hour or 2 doing a site calibration to get set up again. 

 
Posted : November 23, 2022 7:39 am
350RocketMike
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Just finished a backsight and put the mt1000 back in the truck and drove back to where the layout is, "target locked...no target... target locked..." the whole way up the street....so I figure "damn the switching back to passive bug has returned"...back into the settings...what do I find? Still in semi active right where I set it when I went to backsight. So why did it lock onto the truck?

 

 
Posted : November 23, 2022 7:45 am
350RocketMike
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Edit:

I don't think it was actually locking on anything. I discovered shortly after access had slowed down to a crawl... so it was likely about 10-20 seconds behind with its verbal diarrhea as I drove away. It probably lost and gained the target a couple times as I put the prism in the truck so it was just behind. 

And since I know someone will bring it up...I booted the collector up from completely off when I first got here. I don't leave it on all day or for days like some guys do. It's likely a wonky DXF that's causing the lag here. 

Normally the speech only lags behind by about 2-4 seconds under normal conditions. 

 
Posted : November 23, 2022 7:58 am

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Rover83
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So why did it lock onto the truck?

Where was the prism in the truck? Was it in a location where the LEDs could be seen by the instrument? Reflected off something?

When the MT1000 battery is good, it's turned on and set to the correct ID that matches the one in Access, and the diodes are all in good shape, I've never - not once - seen it actually lock onto anything BUT the MT1000.

I've seen it lock onto the prism's reflection in still water before, but never something that is not the prism.

 
Posted : November 23, 2022 8:02 am
bobwesterman
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Posted by: @350rocketmike

Edit:

I don't think it was actually locking on anything. I discovered shortly after access had slowed down to a crawl... so it was likely about 10-20 seconds behind with its verbal diarrhea as I drove away ... 

Normally the speech only lags behind by about 2-4 seconds under normal conditions. 

Are you running speech output ALL THE TIME?

That could be half your problem.  I know EVERY machine I've ever dealt with using speech output, and I've dealt with alot(my wife is totally blind) runs alot slower. Try turning off the speech, or at least adjusting the verbosity. 

 

 
Posted : November 23, 2022 8:11 am
350RocketMike
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@bobwesterman 

Point taken. I will turn it off. Only reason I leave it on is sometimes it's useful. Unfortunately Trimble doesn't give any options to adjust it. On/off and adjust the volume. I would like to turn off the broken "Go left!" When you need to go 20 meters out and 0.050 left. Seriously?

 
Posted : November 23, 2022 8:23 am

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jim.cox
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Sound on the controllers can be quite delayed, and they can get queued up for ages. Unfortunately it is an operating system thing - Access says 'play this' and the system gets around to it when it can - and sound is usually a low priority system process.

The top line of the display is your best measure of what is going-on right now. It gets updated by Access as high-priority real time. If you don't see that padlock you're not target locked, simple as that.

For me, the only time the sounds are useful is through a set of blue-tooth earmuffs when setting out on noisy construction sites. Then the 'go left' 'go right' mean I can concentrate on the prism bubble, not the controller so much.

I do like having the controller vibrate when it stores a point. 

 
Posted : November 23, 2022 11:11 am
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350RocketMike
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@jimcox 

I definitely pay more attention to the screen than the sound, but I have tripped and fallen in a couple of holes trying to watch the screen (usually with GPS when I'm trying to see if I am headed in the right direction). Why did Trimble leave out the "go in" or go out", it's always left or right, even if it's 200m out. 

I do like the vibration when the observation is stored though. 

One of the times I want the sound is if in shooting control or a corner with GPS and I try to do something else while it's shooting.... I'd like to hear "poor pdop" as a heads up when things start to go bad. 

 
Posted : November 23, 2022 12:03 pm
350RocketMike
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Back to the original glitch...I confirmed it doesn't happen using TS only or GNSS only at least on my data collector.  Using the other party chiefs collector the other day, he had the default access tolerance settings 0.000 for the distances, but something like 20" on the angles. And the duplicate point in that case may have been 0.000 from the original shot. 

So my conclusion is that the glitch is only in integrated mode. If I get a chance I will try to catch it on video today, since I'm sure people think I have my tolerance settings wrong (verified it 3 or 4 times now both in the s5 conventional style and rtk style). 

 
Posted : November 24, 2022 7:23 am

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christ lambrecht
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Posted by: @350rocketmike

Just finished a backsight and put the mt1000 back in the truck and drove back to where the layout is, "target locked...no target... target locked..." the whole way up the street....so I figure "damn the switching back to passive bug has returned"...back into the settings...what do I find? Still in semi active right where I set it when I went to backsight. So why did it lock onto the truck?

-- attachment is not available --

 

I ran into a similar problem where I on first use of a TSC7 I configured the Prism MT1000 to active when I was performing the Backsight measurements. Once the station setup was finished I started Measure Topo, shot my 15 points, checked my backsight with the check backsight routine - everything perfect so I broke down the setup and drove to the office ... later at the office I found out that my 15 points were all shot on a reflector pole along the road. Checking in the TSC7 I saw that my Measure Topo points were all shot with a custom Prism in passive mode !!!

I even checked the map view in the field and had to zoom in very deep but did not realise something was wrong there. All points were in a trench of 2m x 0.30m

So adjusting the prism in the stations setup/Backsight mode works only for your stations shots, AND NOT for your Measure Topo shots. Does this make sense? I think it will since it remembers and switches to the correct prism when you start the check backsight routine.

My 15 shots were pot hole shots on utlity lines - embaressed of course & I felt like a starter that day.
The trench was already filled up again, so no data for that location.

 

 

 

 
Posted : November 24, 2022 10:51 pm
350RocketMike
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@christ-lambrecht 

Are you sure you you didn't use "check backsight" before those topo shots? Because that was a bug that was finally fixed in the last update....often when using check backsight it would automatically switch to passive mode immediately and you wouldn't know until it started shooting random signs and stuff. 

Now I constantly check the prism setting even though it seems to be fixed. 

As far as changing the settings of whichever prism style to active, i never noticed that it had to be done in measure topo.....it would jump back to a different prism type if that's what you used for the backsight but the settings in the individual prism type shouldn't change. If it did that would be ridiculous but it wouldn't surprise me after some stuff I've seen it do. 

 
Posted : November 25, 2022 3:13 am
christ lambrecht
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@350rocketmike 
I checked the jxl file and did not do a checkshot imediatly after the station setup was finished.

I was on TA 22.00, past september.
after the stationRecord and backbearingRecord is a TargetRecord with Multitrack,

then we have a pointRecord Face1, Face2 and the Stationresiduals followed by a new TargetRecord with a CustomPrism that I never selected.

Before the check shot on my back bearing there's the TargetRecord with the Multitrack again.

 
 
Posted : November 25, 2022 3:58 am

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