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What constitutes a "monument"?

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Chris Bouffard
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The first thing I would consider would be the rebar, the wood marking it's location is meaningless as evidence.  I would, however, question heavily the position of the rebar for the simple fact that it is sticking 4" out of the ground. That's a huge liability that I doubt many surveyors would assume.

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holy cow
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@chris-bouffard 

We were doing quite well the other day if we left less than 10 inches exposed.  We already had about 600 pounds resting on the four-wheeler attempting to weave between trees without being knocked off.  In several places we had to cut a gap in order to get through only to discover we were blocked off on all sides again.  A rock drill and eight extra charged batteries might have been the straw to break the camel's back.

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Chris Bouffard
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@holy-cow sounds like a different situation, 10" exposed in thick brush probably isn't going to pose that much of a hazard, 4" exposure in the grass is not only a trip hazard but could take out mower blades.

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holy cow
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@chris-bouffard 

Correct, but there is always some liability with set bars, even those at or slightly below ground level.  Especially if the bottom is setting on something immovable.  Today's surface may not be the future surface when a stuck vehicle has sunk to where it makes contact with the top of the bar.  The tire spinning in an attempt to get unstuck results in a ruined tire.  Similarly, in an unfenced neighborhood, a trampoline jumper flies off and lands with one heel directly on the head of the bar.  If it can be imagined, it will eventually happen to someone, somewhere.  Fortunately, the odds are low.

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Chris Bouffard
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@holy-cow these days there are way too many people out there just looking to file a suite to collect cash.  It's a sorry state of affairs.

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Lurker
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I would invoke Justice Potter of the supreme court. I can't define a monument but I know it when I see it.

In 1964, Justice Potter Stewart tried to explain "hard-core" pornography, or what is obscene, by saying, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced... [b]ut I know it when I see it ..."

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Williwaw
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To me, to qualify as an artificial monument it would need to meet some very basic requirements. Is there a record associated with it being placed and has it been accepted as representing a boundary divide. The material and condition are irrelevant. Many original corners in older subdivisions here were hub and tack, some just a scribed stick of spruce, others a cedar post or a chiseled x in a rock. Without some degree of provenance and acceptance, it doesn't necessarily carry any weight. I don't believe any artificial 'monument' can exist completely free of the context in which it was set and agreed upon. 

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thebionicman
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@williwaw 

In Idaho we had 100 plus years between GLO and recording. The same is true in many places, along with those who still don't require it. While a record is helpful it is not a must.

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Williwaw
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@thebionicman I guess ‘instrument’, recorded or not, would have been a better choice of word over record, implying it was recorded. Some document that would support the existence of a ‘monument’. Random iron pipes with no connection to the cadaster wouldn’t qualify as a monument, unless something different can be shown to give it context.

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thebionicman
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@williwaw 

There are numerous ways to support the validity of a monument without a document. 

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Williwaw
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I come here to get schooled. School me. Can you give me an example.

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thebionicman
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@williwaw 

The reliable testimony of owners identifying it as a monument, primarily those famiar with the survey.

Any unique characteristics matching known survey monuments from the relevant time period and or location.

Actions of owners contemporaneous with likely placement. 

Correlation with any other direct or indirect evidence. 

Again, we had 100 plus years of nothing but cutting out 40s. No map, probably no contract. 

More later, Tom 

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Williwaw
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rfc
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 rfc
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I may have confused the issue with my question (What constitutes a monument). I would have assumed that the rebar, monument or not, marking a boundary line, even though uncapped, would be considered illegal to remove. The main question was whether the lath adjacent to it served any marking purpose other than to announce more easily, the existance of the rebar.

I've seen such lath (or similar wood stakes) all over the woods around here, in various states of dis-repair over the years. It's sounding like the question of legality of touching, moving or otherwise disturbing those would result in the answer: "It depends".

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Gordon Svedberg
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Do I see another orange rebar under the grass to the right of the protruding rebar?

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Gordon Svedberg
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It appears also the the protruding rebar has string tied to it, as if someone could have set the rebar for the purpose of stretching string to mark the boundary line.

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MightyMoe
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@gordon-svedberg 

Looks like it to me also. Maybe a bit bent. 

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rfc
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@gordon-svedberg Also, that's correct: There is string tied on it for exactly that purpose. The only strange thing is, all the other points on the line set by the surveyor are nails set flush; only this one point is re-bar (with a reveal). It may be that someone removed the nail, replaced it with re-bar for the purposes of running the string line. Don't know without seeing the survey. I'm assuming the surveyor would be specific as to what was set (nail or rebar, with reveal noted properly).

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Gordon Svedberg
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@rfc I would dig all around beside the protruding pin, and scan with the locator from all points of the compass to see if maybe there is something more there.

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rfc
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@gordon-svedberg No, that's just some paint. I see what you mean though...It almost looks like a Nail with a center point.

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